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 Religion: What should it contribute?

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Posted on 01-05-13 10:26 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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 We have discussed quite a bit in the aspect of religions that involved for the society what it meant to shape us now and what it is now. We evaluated a lot of verses written a few thousands years ago, in that context. And we do work hard to understand (interpret) in today's sense. And quite a few things still do make sense. 

Here is what I propose to ponder:
What should be the role of religion moving forward?
What should it teach, focus, encourage(discourage)?

Some religions talked salvation(Moksha), some englightenment, etc etc..(but only a few similar ones)

What is should be the purpose?

Moreover, thinking even more radically, is there even a place for religion?

What do you think?

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Posted on 01-12-13 8:47 AM     [Snapshot: 1966]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Freedom arguing with you is like arguing with a simpleton. But it is entertaining to see how a mind of a blind believer works.

You said "And yes there is incest in Christianity. But frankly, not as much as there is in Hinduism. Do research that, i dont really like to cut and paste.  Marriage of cousins also still happen in India. In Hinduism, you get bestiality too. There are many images of men doing it with animals outside hindu temples. Also group sex is encouraged. So next time you do it, please do invite your neighbours, friends etc. So there you have it, your kind of arguments, your kind of logic."

Do you know what outlier means in statistic? In every religion, there are always a handful of people who do weird things like murder, rape, incest, you name it. But that is in stark difference of the foundation that builds a religion.

Clearly the foundation of christian evolution is based in incest as I have outlined Adam and Eve and their children procreating.

I am not a hindu that I have to defend the acts such as bestiality and orgy that you see pictures of. When people are young and horny, they try out different things and if they walk away from those unscathed then more power to them. I don't think anyone is thinking of religion when they are in the act of copulation. Maybe you think about jesus mary, adam and eve  when you are copulating but life does not have to be about religion to everyone else. You seem to connect everything to religion. Religion is not a necessity, it is a an outlet chosen by those who are not able to cope with their own day to day life, or they grew up with it.

You said if you are rich you don't have to show bank balance it is shown by the way you live your life in mansion and your lamborghini. I agree with you, but as far as your belief in god, it is not evident in the way you are living your life right now. If you blindly follow something that does not prove anything. All we can see about the way you are living your life is all the bull shit you are giving here about your blind faith. It is apparent that you think the evidence of your religious belief is shown by the way you bull shit. All your incongruent analogies and examples show that you are misleading yourself in trying to force your own belief down your own throat.

I don't think anyone else here is impressed with your ability to be reasonable or logical. But, blind believers mostly have a difficult time being reasonable or logical as we all know it.
Last edited: 12-Jan-13 08:49 AM

You said "You asked me Who created God. I told you that question is invalid. Theists do not believe in a created God. It is like asking a happy person why he is sad."

It is so convenient for Theists to argue like a child. You can ask everyone who created you, who created the earth, the heavens, who created life. But as soon as someone asks you who created god, the question itself becomes invalid. How convenient is that!

It's not like asking a happy person why he's sad, but it's like asking a happy person why he's happy, and the person responding that the question is invalid. The question would be invalid if you ask a happy person why he's sad.
Last edited: 12-Jan-13 09:30 AM

Posted on 01-12-13 10:53 AM     [Snapshot: 1993]     Reply [Subscribe]
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So you are saying, "Right now it looks like Christian world is doing well'

So you agree clear that today's advancement in Europe or America just about have nothing to do with the Christian teaching? If anyone makes these connection, then one doesn't know how the lifecycle of a society evolves. 

But I think you agreed finally. Thanks

Posted on 01-12-13 12:29 PM     [Snapshot: 2018]     Reply [Subscribe]
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more trolling.

no i do not agree with you. If you google the contribution of Christianity to Science, Arts, etc, you will realise why. In fact, Christianity not only changed the world for humans, but animals as well.

The first SPCA in the world which was charity based was formed in 1824 by Christians. 
In 1825, louis braille invented the braille system for the blind.
 Society hardly cared for the sick and poor, so Christians contributed by opening up hospitals, charity oragnisations eons ago.   

I do agree however that people calling themselves Christians have killed people. But it depends on the context you speak. If you mean Atheists and other religion never killed people then i have issue. If you mean they killed in the name of Jesus, i also have issue. If you are talking about the numbers also i have issue.  
Posted on 01-12-13 12:35 PM     [Snapshot: 2024]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Freedom, so very convenient to call others troll when you can't discuss with them. Come to think of it, you are the biggest troll here.

Let's have a vote of who the troll is

Freedom2012 vs rethink

You got my uncontested unanimous vote bro.

Posted on 01-12-13 12:38 PM     [Snapshot: 2024]     Reply [Subscribe]
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no context needed at all.....Christians have killed more than any other people from other faith....plain and simple.....what context?

Posted on 01-12-13 2:03 PM     [Snapshot: 2046]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Christians were also the first to encourage kindness and compassion towards animals.
in 1824, the society for the prevention of cruelty to animals (present RSPCA) was formed. It was led by William Wilberforce among others. The same guy who led the movement to abolish the slave trade.

18fking24.....are you serious? Many other religions started worshiping animals 10 thousands ago and you admire the fact of christians recognizing animal rights 200 years ago. You need some serious help. Like someone said before you have Made up your own reality and logic and rational is too far from your reach.

Hindus started eating meating after Abhramic influence in South India. Before that they did not even know animals could be ate as food.

As for Human beings...christians are responsible for most human massacre so far in the history. They are not just responsible for the massacre but are responsible for wiping out the whole tribe of people. The natives of the Americas, Australia, and some parts of asia were totally wiped out by christians.  Don't forget the murder and rape of 20 million Natives in USA alone by the christians.

Steal the massive land from the natives by murdering all including women and children and kidnap Africans to work for you for hundreds of years and you see that prosperity that has a base of stolen land and forced labor and call that a gift from Jesus Christ. And even try to sell that to the rest of the world that we are prosporous becouse Jesus loves us.

Last edited: 12-Jan-13 03:09 PM

Posted on 01-12-13 4:26 PM     [Snapshot: 2037]     Reply [Subscribe]
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 I am loving this debate,

My dear friend 

You justify icest in Christianity because Hindus had it too? Is that a justification. If muslims have some bad practice in their religion , Christians would like to have it too? Is bad practice. So chrsitiany can not lead by example? 
Is it ok to justify your wrong doing by saying other do it too?
Is it ok to kill because others kill too?
is it ok to steal because others steal too.

I dont beleive in any religion , so I dont care what other religions had or had not
You claimed Christiany is better religion  but I see Christiany too has all the bad practices other religions had. May be you need to read the Bible once again. May be you need to read the history once again.

Now question about evolving of christianity. 
Where in bible it is written that Christianity need to be evoilved? was not it the gods word from the begenning? So you feel they changes the gods word?? then it is not a gods word any more isnt it ? 

Could you be kind enough to enlighten me why Christianity needed to evolve ? what was wrong with it ? Why gods word was not enough?
If Christianity needed to evolve from past how do you gurantee that such evolution is for better? may be in another 100 years they will realize that this evolution in Christianty was wrong and they needed another (re)evolution? what is the gurantee that there will be no need of such (re)volution in Christiany once again?

Now about Tollerance in Christianty.
what is tollerance ? let me copy and paste what dictionary says about it



 noun \ˈtä-lə-rən(t)s, ˈtäl-rən(t)s\ 
: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurancefortitude,stamina
a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own
b : the act of allowing something : toleration
: the allowable deviation from a standard; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece
(1) : the capacity of the body to endure or become less responsive to a substance (as a drug) or a physiological insult especially with repeated use or exposure <developed atolerance to painkillers>also : the immunological state marked by unresponsiveness to a specific antigen (2) : relative capacity of an organism to grow or thrive when subjected to an unfavorable environmental factor
b : the maximum amount of a pesticide residue that may lawfully remain on or in food
How can christian be tolarance if thy dont aceept others beleief ?

I am the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.” Jesus in John 14:6.

Is this a tolerant line ? 

Not only christianty my friend many other civilization have changed dthe world 

1. Most understanding about universe was put forward  by Albert einsteim , 
2. Noble prize was established by  Alfred Noble , I dont have to tell you taht how prestigous is that prize, he was not christian
3. The scientific concept about sex ( one of the most/talked about/written subject till date from the dawn of the civilization Sigmund freud

And chinese four great inventions of  a) Compass  b) gunpowder  c) Paper making  and d) Printing

but you talk about only chritian contribution. 

Present day human civilization is contributed by many people, not only christians. 

You have "Problems is yours solution is mine"  type of attitude my friend. 

So if Atheist killed that means its ok for christian to kill , here you have problem my friend.
Christian have killed in the name of christianity as muslims did in the name of Islam 

Christian terrorism

Great Britain

The early modern period in Britain saw religious conflict resulting from the Reformation and the introduction ofProtestant state churches.[6] The Gunpowder Plot was a failed attempt to blow up the Palace of Westminster, theEnglish seat of government. Peter Steinfels characterizes this plot as a notable case of religious terrorism.[7]

Northern Ireland

The Orange Volunteers are a group infamous for carrying out simultaneous terrorist attacks on
Catholic churches.
[12]Self-styled pastors[13] Clifford Peeples, previously convicted under the
Prevention of Terrorism Act, John Somerville, and their associates, were dubbed by RUC chief
Ronnie Flanagan "the demon pastors" – specialising in recounting lurid stor



[edit]Tripura and Assam

The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), a rebel group operating in TripuraNorth-East India, has been described as engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs.[14] 


In July 2011, Anders Behring Breivik was arrested and charged with terrorism after a car bombing in Oslo and a mass shooting on Utøya island.[40] As a result of his attacks, 151 people were injured, and 77 killed. Hours prior to the events, Breivik released a 1,500 page manifesto detailing that immigrants were undermining Norway's traditional Christian values, and identifying himself as a "Christian crusader".[41] Analyses of his motivations have noted that he did not only display Christian terrorist inclinations, but also had non-religious, right-wing beliefs.[42][43][44] Mark Juergensmeyer and John Mark Reynolds have stated that the events were Christian terrorism,[45][46] whereas Brad Hirschfield has rejected the Christian terrorist label.[47]

For further reading you can visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

So Christian have killed in the name of jesus, 
I know my friend you will say they were not christian lol

And present day so called civilised society founded by your founding fathers was created by killing its original inhabitants .

Why there is always a debate about abrotion during american election?

Why doctors who perform abosrton are killed , Who kills them? do you know? some of the beleivers are killing docotrs who pereform abortiuon in present day america. Isnt that killing in the name of christianty? you have problem my friend. You can not hide just by saying those are not christians, Find the biography of those killers , they are christian  in the name of christianty.

Last edited: 12-Jan-13 05:08 PM

Posted on 01-12-13 4:34 PM     [Snapshot: 2076]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Like I said in the beginning, nobody's belief is going to change here so much of our discussion will be pointless. I think I am done discussing here.
But I have enjoyed reading some of the comments here.
Posted on 01-12-13 5:50 PM     [Snapshot: 2081]     Reply [Subscribe]
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 Now My friend about animal cruality ,

I know you just pick whichever lines suits your beleife, whithout trying to look at broader picture. This is your problem. You are behaving like a  teen ager. yet to be mature.

Why you only want to see one side of the coin? Or you beleive coins have only one side? My friend for your information let me tell you coins have other side too.
so you picked up How Christianty helped animals and ignored the possibility that christian might have done bad to animals too . 

Lets me tell you what Beleivers have done to animals 

Animal testing, also known as animal experimentationanimal research, and in vivo testing, is the use of non-human animals in experiments (although some research about animals involves only natural behaviors or pure observation, such as a mouse running a maze or field studies of chimp troops). Worldwide it is estimated that the number of vertebrate animals—from zebrafish to non-human primates—ranges from the tens of millions to more than 100 million used annually.[1] Invertebrates, mice, rats, birds, fish, frogs, and animals not yet weaned are not included in the figures in the United States; one estimate of mice and rats used in the US alone in 2001 was 80 million.[2][3]Most animals are euthanized after being used in an experiment.[4] Sources of laboratory animals vary between countries and species; most animals are purpose-bred, while others are caught in the wild or supplied by dealers who obtain them from auctions andpounds.[5]

Animals have been used repeatedly through the history of biomedical research. The founders,
in 1831, of the 
Dublin Zoo—the fourth oldest zoo in Europe, after Vienna, Paris, and London—were
members of the medical profession, interested in studying the animals both while they were alive
and when they were dead.
[19] In the 1880s, Louis Pasteur convincingly demonstrated the germ
 of medicine by inducing anthrax in sheep.[20] In the 1890s, Ivan Pavlov famously used dogs
to describe 
classical conditioning.[21] Insulin was first isolated from dogs in 1922, and revolutionized
the treatment of 
diabetes.[22] On November 3, 1957, a Soviet dogLaika, became the first of many 
animals to orbit the earth. In the 1970s, antibiotic treatments and vaccines for leprosy were
developed using armadillos,
[23] then given to humans.[24] The ability of humans to change the 
genetics of animals took a large step forwards in 1974 when Rudolf Jaenisch was able to produce
the first 
transgenic mammal, by integrating DNA from the SV40 virus into the genome of mice.[25] 
This genetic research progressed rapidly and, in 1996, 
Dolly the sheep was born, the first mammal
to be 
cloned from an adult cell.[26]

My friend plese check the religoius beelif and religoius upbringing of those scienttists mentioned here, most of them are either christians or had Christians upbringisg.How can you deny this fact?

Types of vertebrates used in animal testing in Europe in 2005: a total of 12.1 million animals were used.[47]

Cats and dogs

Cats are most commonly used in neurological research. Over 25,500 cats were used in the U.S. in 2000, around half of whom were used in experiments which, according to the American Anti-Vivisection Society, had the potential to cause "pain and/or distress".[68]

Dogs are widely used in biomedical research, testing, and education — particularly beagles, because they are gentle and easy to handle. They are commonly used as models for human diseases in cardiology, endocrinology, and bone and joint studies, research that tends to be highly invasive, according to the Humane Society of the United States.[69]The U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal Welfare Report for 2005 shows that 66,000 dogs were used in USDA-registered facilities in that year.[51] In the U.S., some of the dogs are purpose-bred, while most are supplied by so-called Class B dealers licensed by the USDA to buy animals from auctions, shelters, newspaper ads, and who are sometimes accused of stealing pets.[70]

Non-human primates

Around 65,000 primates are used each year in the U.S. and Europe.

Non-human primates (NHPs) are used in toxicology tests, studies of AIDS and hepatitis, studies of 
neurology, behavior and cognition, reproduction, genetics, andxenotransplantation. They are
caught in the wild or purpose-bred. In the U.S. and China, most primates are domestically
purpose-bred, whereas in Europe the majority are imported purpose-bred.[71] Rhesus monkeys,
cynomolgus monkeys, squirrel monkeys, and owl monkeys are imported; around 12,000 to 15,000
monkeys are imported into the U.S. annually.[72] In total, around 70,000 NHPs are used each year
in the United States and European Union.[47][51] Most of the NHPs used aremacaques;[73] but 
marmosetsspider monkeys, and squirrel monkeys are also used, and baboons and chimpanzees 
are used in the U.S; in 2006 there were 1133 chimpanzees in U.S. primate centers.[74] The first
transgenic primate was produced in 2001, with the development of a method that could introduce
new genes into arhesus macaque.[75] This transgenic technology is now being applied in the
search for a treatment for the genetic disorder Huntington's disease.[76] Notable studies on
non-human primates have been part of the polio vaccine development, and development of Deep
Brain Stimulation
, and their current heaviest non-toxicological use occurs in the monkey AIDS
model, SIV.[7][73][77] In 2008 a proposal to ban all primates experiments in the EU has sparked a
vigorous debate.[78]

Around 65,000 primates are used each year in the U.S. and Europe.

Toxicology testing

Toxicology testing, also known as safety testing, is conducted by pharmaceutical companies testing drugs, or by contract animal testing facilities, such as Huntingdon Life Sciences, on behalf of a wide variety of customers.[140]According to 2005 EU figures, around one million animals are used every year in Europe in toxicology tests; which are about 10% of all procedures.[47] According to Nature, 5,000 animals are used for each chemical being tested, with 12,000 needed to test pesticides.[141] The tests are conducted without anesthesia, because interactions between drugscan affect how animals detoxify chemicals, and may interfere with the results.[142][143]

A rabbit during a Draize test

Toxicology tests are used to examine finished products such as pesticides,medicationsfood additives, packing materials, and air freshener, or their chemical ingredients. Most tests involve testing ingredients rather than finished products, but according to BUAV, manufacturers believe these tests overestimate the toxic effects of substances; they therefore repeat the tests using their finished products to obtain a less toxic label.[140]

Posted on 01-12-13 6:05 PM     [Snapshot: 2081]     Reply [Subscribe]
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pity you link animal rights to praying to cows and being vegetarian.  You really need to do more research on what RSPCA do. You have really got no clue it seems. You said thousands of years before xtianity Hindus already knew about animal rights, Yeah right!. PRESENT day India and Nepal are among the worst culprits of animal rights abuse. Animal sacrifice to Gods still is so rampant.  

See my friend, words are all you have, no action. You have no examples to show how your belief changed the society. ZILCH!

I have already answered all your questions. 

Christianity has killed the least. You have to do more research.
How many have died in Hindu vs Muslim wars?. There are no proper records. 
If you believe in Mahabharat war, do you know how many people were killed?
Atheists have killed more than religion if you exclude the Mahabharat war.

you are the one who needs to read the bible again. Incest is in the old testament. There was no Jesus then to account for that. Life would not have been possible without procreation. Incest is NOT prescribed in the bible. In hindu texts, incest is prescribed. 
The whole purpose of Jesus was to admit the mistakes and the nature of Sin. He acknowledged the presense of Sin in society. He acknowledged our sinful life and that is why he died on the cross for those sins that you talk about. 
This is what Christians believe. So stop the lies and instead try to understand Jesus's teachings. Can you show me any verse that encouraged incest?. Can you show me any verse where Jesus told to kill in his name?.
Jesus said "Pray for those who persecute you". This is enough a teaching to prove that Jesus was indeed great. 

You give example of terror organisations that are Christian in origin. This is a very political question. I leave it up to you to read about them and why they prefer a struggle and what circumstances led them to do so. Killing another human being is contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Yes people who call themselves Christians can be evil too just like other humans, but in no way would be following the teachings of Jesus. All you have to do is look at the many teachings of Jesus.


Posted on 01-12-13 6:30 PM     [Snapshot: 2098]     Reply [Subscribe]
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LOLZ. By your most recent argument about cruelty to animals, you actually proved that Christians have contributed so much to modern medicine. Euthanesia is NOT cruelty to animals. Doing research on animals help both the animals and humans. For example, to understand the diseases and sickness of a dog and to treat other dogs better in future, one does have to do more research. If not how will Vets learn?. You seem so desperate my friend. 
Now i will repeat. 
1824---->The first SPCA in the world based on charity established by Christians. All you have to do is list something similar started by a hindu or muslim or buddhist before this date. Regardless how many lies you tell, or how much haywire logic you use, thats it the date 1824 for the SPCA doesnt change.     
Posted on 01-12-13 7:01 PM     [Snapshot: 2112]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Christians learned about caring animals in 1824 but were activelty murdering and raping the natives in the americas resulting into a death toll of 20 million natives and were also trading slaves who were captured in africa and brought to their christian countries on shackles to be worked forcefully for the next 4 hundred years. Of all the Christians, American Christians are the most note worthy as they did not know all people were created equal until 1940s.

Posted on 01-12-13 8:57 PM     [Snapshot: 2109]     Reply [Subscribe]
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 I see, 

there was a guy  in germany who beleived inaryan superiority and he thought it was ok to do experiments on other race. In face his army performeed horrible experine on different anomals and human . He ended up killing millions and in the end comitted suicide. 
There was/is an organization KKK who beleives in white supremacy  and and still to be banned.
There was a guy in Muslim world who beleived in muslim supremacy and comitted many inhumane act and in the end ended up being killed.

I can see a religous group beleiving in Christian merticracy, without accepting any  wrong doings. Hitler beleived like that Musoliny beleived like that. 
Karl Marx beleived his book"das capital" is the best solution to the poverty,
After  the fall of Roman empire Christians thought they will rule the world 
All those suprematic beleifes failed to conquer human. Now another group has emerged  and talking about Christian meritocracy but at the same time talks about tolerance and "Pray for those who persecute you". two very contradictory beliefs

Christians can be evil too just like other humans, My friend where is Christian Meritocracy them, where is the usfulness of Jesus teaching then?

My participation in this debate is not to show/claime that  I am superior to others or my beleife is superior to others. Just to refute some peoples boasting about their religion 

My friend If 
Christians can be evil too just like other humans, what is the use of Jesus tecahing ?

That means jesus teaching has no effect. Peopel are faking that they are Christian, and in reality they are not following Jesus teaching.
If you say There are good Christians there are bad Christians,  Just like there are good non Christians and there are bad non Christians then what is the use of Christianty?

You see you yourslef proved that Jesus teching has no effect. Christian or no Christain people are same. Looks like religion  is being used to fool innoent people by cunning people, thats all.

If there can be evil Christins (even the god could not make them free of evil) so why are you crying if there are bad people in  Islam, Budhhism and Hinduism

Or, you think it is  only Christins right to be evil, its not allowed peope from other faith to be evil? whats is your problem?

1824---->The first SPCA in the world based on charity established by Christians. All you have to do is list something similar started by a hindu or muslim or buddhist before this date. 

You can believe in whatever religion you want to believe,  its ok, but dont forcefully make me beleiver of Islam, Hinduism and Budhhist at once.

When did I say I belive in those ? You see you are totally lost. You do not know what you are saying. Good things this about this is you are exposing yourself and your beliefe a. This only shows how onsided people become when they start to belive religion. You are proving my points not yours.

Also, you are replying, very good, what do you think the readers of this thread dont have brain of their own. You know even if they are not Christians they can think/analyse and come to the conclusion. Your funny replies may have satisfied your ego about your religion but your cluless replies will turn others away many from Chrsitianty. But that doesnt bother me, So please continue making funny reply I will continue my approach with data and fatcs. I trust peoples ability, they will compare my answers with your reply and decide for themsslevs. Please continue

My main aim  to participate in this debate is to show readers that belief in religion makes a person blind folded and you are proving that. 
I told many times I dont beleive is any religion then why should I go and find wheather Islam/hindu or Budhhist started something similar to Christian unless some of their supporter  claim the meritocracy like you are doing, why should I? 
I do not care what any religion have  or dont have within them unless some one like you from those religious beleifs  comes and claim something without any verifiable facts. 
Because Human experimented in many religions, now its time to put a stop in experiment and believe in fact. No more religion, they had their time, all of them failed.

There is no incest in Christianty? Bible acepts Adams and eve or not? If Christian Bible does not acepts creation of Adams and Eve by god then who and how humans were created according to Christianty? could you enlighten me?

HOW MANY KIDS Adam and Eve had? With whom they got married? was no incest involve in there? and sometime you are defending by saying there is example of incest in Hinduism/ and another religion too. Are you saying Christianty has nothing to do Adams and Eve, its only Jewis bible who talks about Adams and Eve? Ok for me, so Holy father did not create human, it was Jewis god who created human?

That is why I am saying religion is all BS. no need of any religion. 

In many replies you said Christian have evolved ? since when christians start to beleive in evolution instaed of creationism?
Why they need to evolve, against which beleife they needed to evolve?

LOLZ. By your most recent argument about cruelty to animals, you actually proved that Christians have contributed so much to modern medicine. Euthanesia is NOT cruelty to animals. Doing research on animals help both the animals and humans. For example, to

This reply shoews how ignorent you are. First why they perform Euthanesia you know? dare to care?? First find out why they do Euthnesia. they introduce pain, they make wound, give pesticide, insecticide, and after all those act when animals become breathing meat, then they euthanesia the animals. Are you a fifth greader or what? Or is it prohibited to use brain in Christianity?

And can you show me where in Bible it says you have to test in animals. or Bible have no respect to any other life form other than humans? Have you ever heard about animal right?

For example, to understand the diseases and sickness of a dog and to treat other dogs better in future, one does have to do more research. If not how will Vets learn?. You seem so desperate my friend.

lol lol...... I think this is the height of your ignorence, and I can imagine your level of understanding of drug testing /Science and technology. Or you might be thinking oh how cleverfully you avoided the question.
Have you heard about animal right?

You fail to understand this that debate is being read not only by you and me but by many other people too. You are running  away in many cases hiding in many other cases from the fact and blind foldedly putting forward cluless subjective argument. Other people reading your  argument will run away from Christianty because your aruguments are too childish.

But this is good for me. Because when people read your arguments even those who support Christianty will think twice before saying anhting good about it next time.

So lets continue my friend you are helping me to expose the level of thinking of a person who follows Christianty. 
But I have to be honest here. You know how your argument sounds like? 

Your arguments sounds like a Non Chrsitian guy pretending to be a Christian and arguing without any clue  whose main intention is  to defame Christianty.
I dont know you are real Christain or not  but in both cases you are helping my points. 

Now, once again please do come with funny and subjective argument so that it will be easier for readers to distant themsleves from Christianty so that they would know they wouldnt miss anyhting if they dont follw Jesus so called teachings.

Last edited: 12-Jan-13 09:09 PM

Posted on 01-12-13 9:35 PM     [Snapshot: 2149]     Reply [Subscribe]
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my goodness you are all over the place with your logic. Christianity by definition starts AFTER Jesus Christ. The old testament about Adam and Eve is the story of creation. So what should christians do in your opinion?. What answers are you waiting for?. What fault does Jesus have in this?. Christians already know about the Incest part in Creation, so what are you trying to prove?. You know Jesus talked about morality. He spoke againsts the bad practices in those times. He talked about sin and the sanctity of marriage. 
See you questioned why they need to evolve. The answer is many followers did not lead by example. Of the many who did, they changed life with what they did based on their faith of Jesus's  teachings. Mother Teresa and Florence Nightingale did it in the service of God. Those with Faith grew over time.
Moral values have started deteriorating again. People were greedy last time, they are greedy now. People have lost Faith since they equate God to candy. Faith has begun to disappear. 
This is the whole problem. Religion plays an important role in shaping a positive society. 
Bro, i understand where you are going with the cruelty thing, yes it is cruel i do agree. But at least as a society, people do get fined for being cruel to animals. Stray dogs and cats are taken care of. It is not a perfect world out here.
Yes, life is still cruel. It will never be perfect regardless which religion is supreme. 
But we must strive to make it egalitarian and meritocratic as best as we can. 
Religion understands life as a suffering. There is no Utopia out here.   
Posted on 01-13-13 12:03 AM     [Snapshot: 2179]     Reply [Subscribe]
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This posting is not for everyone, but who does read it, you are exceptional.

Every week, billions of people all around the world attend religious ceremonies in their respective buildings.  Muslims go to their mosques, Christians go to their churches, Jews to their synagogues, Hindus to their Mandirs, and so on and so on.

National Mosque of Nigeria

Believers of these different faiths gather for prayer and worship, fellowship with fellow believers, and to get a chance to hear text that they consider to be the “Word of God”.  These sites are considered to be sacred places. They often are seen as the literal house of the God or gods which they are dedicated to.

Hindu temple in Delhi

Within these structures, elaborate murals, shrines, scultpures are put up to represent different gods, angels, and saints. Followers of these faiths will often go to these places to speak to these representations in hopes of getting them to intercede in their lives.

Statue of St. Peter

Within these “Houses of God”, people will hear stories about the divine revelations and experiences of their prophets, saints, and holy men and women. But the most ironic thing about these stories is that most of the people described in them did not have their spiritual awakenings, revelations or experiences in a temple or building of any kind. In fact, most of them had their spiritual experiences in nature. Don’t believe me? Consider the following examples:


Moses experiences God through a burning bush

Considered to be the most important prophet in Judaism, Moses had his first experience when he heard a voice speaking to him through a bush that was on fire, yet was not burning.  His second divine revelation from God came to him on a mountaintop.

Moses receives the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai

Gautama Buddha

Buddha under Bodhi tree

After trying different paths to find an end to human suffering, Siddhārtha Gautama decided to meditate under a Bodhi tree. After 49 days of non stop meditation, he reached Enlightenment, and became a Buddha, which means an “Awakened One.” Those that follow his teachings today call themselves Buddhists.

Jesus Christ

The man known as Jesus Christ is said to have begun his ministry when the spirit of God descended upon him during a baptism ritual performed by John the Baptist at the river Jordan. He then spent the next forty days and forty nights fasting and praying, not in a temple, not in a synagogue, but in the wilderness.

Jesus in the wilderness

According to the scriptures, he remained in the wilderness throughout his ministry,  and  did the vast majority of his preaching in nature, including the famous sermon on the mount.

Sermon on the Mount

Prophet Muhammad

“When Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] was nearly forty, he had been wont to pass long hours in retirement meditating and speculating over all aspects of creation around him. This meditative temperament helped to widen the mental gap between him and his compatriots. He used to provide himself with Sawiq (barley porridge) and water and then directly head for the hills and ravines in the neighbourhood of Makkah. One of these in particular was his favourite resort — a cave named Hira’, in the Mount An-Nour. It was only two miles from Makkah, a small cave 4 yards long and 1.75 yard wide. He would always go there and invite wayfarers to share him his modest provision. He used to devote most of his time, and Ramadan in particular, to worship and meditation on the universe around him.” [Rahmat Al-lil'alameen 1/47; Ibn Hisham 1/235,236; Fi Zilal Al-Qur'an 29/166]

Cave in Hira where the Prophet Muhammad received the Koran

“When he was forty, the age of complete perfection at which Prophets were always ordered to disclose their Message, signs of his Prophethood started to appear and twinkle on the horizons of life; they were the true visions he used to experience for six months. The period of Prophethood was 23 years; so the period of these six months of true visions constituted an integral part of the forty-six parts of Prophethood. In Ramadan, in his third year of solitude in the cave of Hira’, Allâh’s Will desired His mercy to flow on earth and Muhammad [pbuh] was honoured with Prophethood, and the light of Revelation burst upon him with some verses of the Noble Qur’ân.” [Fath Al-Bari 1/27]

So here you have the founders of four of the major religions in the world receiving divine revelation in nature, and yet today, their followers are literally stick themselves inside in large boxes of sticks, stones, glass and metal.  Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

Its not only religious people that have become delusional, its also people who proclaim to be scientists as well. Ancient scientists used to learn about nature by actually being a part of it. Sitting around watching the heavenly bodies in the sky, and seeing how different things interacted in nature. Nowadays, they are stuck behind computer screens or locked away in laboratories. The interesting thing is that most of their “theories” and “laws” stem from people like Sir Issac Newton, who “discovered” gravity after an apple fell on his head while he was sitting under a tree. I guess you can call him the Buddha of Physics.

Did you get what's the message of all religion?? 

Be close to nature, be with yourself, live the present moment and help others in your reach.
This should be the main mantra to follow and lead your life.
90% of population are just living/leading their selfish life with no simple realization of contemplating present moment and being with nature.


Posted on 01-13-13 9:56 AM     [Snapshot: 2218]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Christianity has killed the least. You have to do more research.
How many have died in Hindu vs Muslim wars?. There are no proper records. 
If you believe in Mahabharat war, do you know how many people were killed?
Atheists have killed more than religion if you exclude the Mahabharat war

Didn't your god wipe out the entire humanity from the face of the earth with his great flood? I mean that is something, isn't it? And here we are debating how many got killed in hindu/muslim and mahabharat conflicts.

Your god has serious issues with humanity dude. I mean he is a mass killer of biblical proportions. Stalin, mao,, polpot ain't got nothing on your christian god when it comes to killing.

There, I have proved that you christians are savages and have killed more than any other people.

And all the arguments that you will present to contradict it are INVALID.

Posted on 01-13-13 11:45 AM     [Snapshot: 2237]     Reply [Subscribe]
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I think all fanatics need some psychiatric help. so you do Ashish and others.. you all fanatics do really need help.

Posted on 01-15-13 11:43 AM     [Snapshot: 2328]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Posted on 01-17-13 10:44 AM     [Snapshot: 2393]     Reply [Subscribe]
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 When my son was around 3 years old, he used to ask me a lot of questions about heaven. Where is it? How do people walk without a body? How will I find you? You know the questions that kids ask.
     For over a year, I lied to him and made up stories that I didn’t believe about heaven. Like most parents, I love my child so much that I didn’t want him to be scared. I wanted him to feel safe and loved and full of hope. But the trade-off was that I would have to make stuff up, and I would have to brainwash him into believing stories that didn’t make sense, stories that I didn’t believe either.
     One day he would know this, and he would not trust my judgment. He would know that I built an elaborate tale—not unlike the one we tell children about Santa—to explain the inconsistent and illogical legend of God.
     And so I thought it was only right to be honest with my children. I am a non-believer, and for years I’ve been on the fringe in my community. As a blogger, though, I’ve found that there are many other parents out there like me. We are creating the next generation of kids, and there is a wave of young agnostics, atheists, free thinkers and humanists rising up through the ranks who will, hopefully, lower our nation’s religious fever.
     Here are a few of the reasons why I am raising my children without God.
God is a bad parent and role model.
     If God is our father, then he is not a good parent. Good parents don’t allow their children to inflict harm on others. Good people don’t stand by and watch horrible acts committed against innocent men, women and children. They don’t condone violence and abuse. “He has given us free will,” you say? Our children have free will, but we still step in and guide them.
God is not logical.
     How many times have you heard, “Why did God allow this to happen?” And this: “It’s not for us to understand.” Translate: We don’t understand, so we will not think about it or deal with the issue. Take for example the senseless tragedy in Newtown. Rather than address the problem of guns in America, we defer responsibility to God. He had a reason. He wanted more angels. Only he knows why. We write poems saying that we told God to leave our schools. Now he’s making us pay the price. If there is a good, all-knowing, all-powerful God who loves his children, does it make sense that he would allow murders, child abuse, wars, brutal beatings, torture and millions of heinous acts to be committed throughout the history of mankind? Doesn’t this go against everything Christ taught us in the New Testament?
     The question we should be asking is this: “Why did we allow this to happen?” How can we fix this? No imaginary person is going to give us the answers or tell us why. Only we have the ability to be logical and to problem solve, and we should not abdicate these responsibilities to “God” just because a topic is tough or uncomfortable to address.
God is not fair.
     If God is fair, then why does he answer the silly prayers of some while allowing other, serious requests, to go unanswered? I have known people who pray that they can find money to buy new furniture. (Answered.) I have known people who pray to God to help them win a soccer match. (Answered.) Why are the prayers of parents with dying children not answered?
     If God is fair, then why are some babies born with heart defects, autism, missing limbs or conjoined to another baby? Clearly, all men are not created equally. Why is a good man beaten senseless on the street while an evil man finds great wealth taking advantage of others? This is not fair. A game maker who allows luck to rule mankind’s existence has not created a fair game.
God does not protect the innocent.
     He does not keep our children safe. As a society, we stand up and speak for those who cannot. We protect our little ones as much as possible. When a child is kidnapped, we work together to find the child. We do not tolerate abuse and neglect. Why can’t God, with all his powers of omnipotence, protect the innocent?
God is not present.
     He is not here. Telling our children to love a person they cannot see, smell, touch or hear does not make sense. It means that we teach children to love an image, an image that lives only in their imaginations. What we teach them, in effect, is to love an idea that we have created, one that is based in our fears and our hopes.
God Does Not Teach Children to Be Good
     A child should make moral choices for the right reasons. Telling him that he must behave because God is watching means that his morality will be externally focused rather than internally structured. It’s like telling a child to behave or Santa won’t bring presents. When we take God out of the picture, we place responsibility of doing the right thing onto the shoulders of our children. No, they won’t go to heaven or rule their own planets when they die, but they can sleep better at night. They will make their family proud. They will feel better about who they are. They will be decent people.
God Teaches Narcissism
     “God has a plan for you.” Telling kids there is a big guy in the sky who has a special path for them makes children narcissistic; it makes them think the world is at their disposal and that, no matter what happens, it doesn’t really matter because God is in control. That gives kids a sense of false security and creates selfishness. “No matter what I do, God loves me and forgives me. He knows my purpose. I am special.” The irony is that, while we tell this story to our kids, other children are abused and murdered, starved and neglected. All part of God’s plan, right?
    When we raise kids without God, we tell them the truth—we are no more special than the next creature. We are just a very, very small part of a big, big machine–whether that machine is nature or society–the influence we have is minuscule. The realization of our insignificance gives us a true sense of humbleness.
     I understand why people need God. I understand why people need heaven. It is terrifying to think that we are all alone in this universe, that one day we—along with the children we love so much—will cease to exist. The idea of God and an afterlife gives many of us structure, community and hope.
     I do not want religion to go away. I only want religion to be kept at home or in church where it belongs. It’s a personal effect, like a toothbrush or a pair of shoes. It’s not something to be used or worn by strangers. I want my children to be free not to believe and to know that our schools and our government will make decisions based on what is logical, just and fair—not on what they believe an imaginary God wants.

Posted on 01-17-13 1:21 PM     [Snapshot: 2418]     Reply [Subscribe]
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'मलाई बुवाले बलात्कार गरे'

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काठमाडौ, माघ ५ - बिहानको दश बज्नै लाग्दा काँडाघारी प्रहरी बिटमा एक बालिका दौडदै आइन् । सडक बाहिर घाम तापेर उभिरहेकी महिला प्रहरीलाई समातिन् । अनि बोलिन् 'आन्टी मलाई बाबाले जथाभाबी समात्यो' ड्युटीमा रहेकी ति महिला प्रहरी झस्किन् । अनि सोधिन्- के भो ? ति बालिकाले (झड्केलो) बाबुले आफ्नो यौन शोषण गरेको बताईन् ।

ति १० बषिर्य बालिकाले आमा चर्चमा प्रार्थना गर्न गएका बेला बाबुले आफु माथी यौन शोषण गरेको बताइन् । काँडाघारी चौकीका प्रहरी तुरुन्त ति बालिकाले देखाए तर्फ लागे । उनको घर पुग्दा एक महिला चिच्याइ रहेकी थिईन् । 'नानी बोकेर उता भाग्यो, सर' भन्दै कराउँदै थिईन् । ति महिला बालिकाकी आमा थिईन् । प्रहरीहरु छरिएर त्यो ब्यक्तिलाई खोज्न थाले । अलि पर ति ब्यक्ति ६ महिनाकी नानी च्यापेर दौडिरहेका बेला प्रहरीले समात्यो । जवर्जस्ती करणी अभियोगमा खोटाङका राई महानगरीय प्रहरी बृत नयाँ बानेश्वरको हिरासतमा छन् ।

खासमा के भएको हो ? ति बालिकाकै शब्दमा -


मेरो घर सिन्धुपाल्चोकको तातोपानी हो । मेरो आमाले २ बर्ष अघि यो बाबा -जङबहादुर राई)संग बिहे गरेको हो ।  आमाले यो बाबासंग बिहे गरेपछि तातोपानीको बुवाले मलाई काँडाघारीकै एक जना आन्टीको घरमा राखिदिनु भएको थियो । म आन्टीको घरमा बसेर न्यु स्टार स्कुलमा ३ कक्षा पढ्दै थिएँ । अस्ति दशैंमा घर -तातोपानी) गएको बेला मैले बुवालाई आमाको बारेमा सोधेँ । मामाघरको हजुरआमालाई आमा बस्ने ठाउँ थाहा रहेछ । हजुरआमाले मलाई र बहिनीलाई आमाको घर ल्याइदिनु भयो । मैले त्यो बेला घर जाने बाटो याद गरेकी थिएँ । आमालाई भेटेर म काँडाघारीमा आन्टीको घर गएँ । तर मलाई आमा बिना बस्न मन लागेन । पढ्न पनि मन लागेन । अनि म भागेर आमा भएको ठाउँमा आउँथे । स्कुल पनि जान छाँडे । आमाले मलाई नआईज भनेर धेरै पिट्नु भयो । पढाउने, खुवाउने मसंग पैसा छैन भन्दै गालामा पिटेर पठाउनु हुन्थ्यो । आन्टीको घरमा पुर्‍याउन जानु हुन्थ्यो । तर म फेरी भागेर आउँथे ।


म धेरै भाग्न थालेपछि आमाले मलाई आफैसंग राख्न थाल्नु भयो । म र बहिनी आमासंग बस्न थालेको २ महिना जति भयो । आमासंग बस्न थालेपछि फि तिर्न नसकेर स्कूलले निकालिदियो । आमा सधैं बिहान संगतीमा जाने भएकाले म नै खाना बनाउँथे । बाबा घरमा रङ लगाउने काम गर्नुहुन्छ । यो बाबाले मलाई पहिले पनि मेरो छाती र पिसाब गर्ने ठाउँमा छुने गर्नुहुन्थ्यो । अस्ति पुष २८ गते दिउँसो बाबा खाना खान घर आउनु भयो । मेरो बहिनीलाई घाम ताप्न बाहिर पठाएर मलाई कोठामा काम छ भन्दै भित्र लगेर जबरजस्ती गर्नु भयो ।  म रोएँ, चिच्याएँ । उहाँले मेरो मुख हातले थुन्नु भयो । आमा वा अरु कसैलाई सुनाइस भने तँ, तेरो बहिनी र आमा दुबै जनालाई मार्छु भन्नुभयो । अनि मैले डरले भनिन । अस्ति १ गते सक्रान्तिको दिन पनि आमा संगतीको लागि भनेर बिहानै सानो बहिनी बोकेर जानु भयो । म घरमा बहिनीसंग थिएँ । बिहानै कता जानु भएको थियो कुन्नी बाबा दिउँसो खाना खान आउनु भयो । बहिनीलाई त्यसरी नै घाम ताप्न पठाएर मलाई खाना पस्किन  बोलाउनु भयो । भित्र पस्ने बित्तिकै बाबाले मेरो हात समातेर ओछ्यानमा लैजानु भयो । म रोएँ । आमालाई भनिदिन्छु भन्दै भागेँ । उहाँले लखेटेर मलाई फेरी समात्नु भयो । अनि मुख थुन्दै कपडा खोलेर पहिलाको जस्तै गर्नु भयो । बाहिर घाम तापेर बसिरहेकी बहिनी म धेरै बेर नआएपछि कोठामा आउन खोजिछ । ढोका नखुलेपछि उसले झ्यालको पर्दा हटाएर हेर्दा बाबाले मेरो मुख थुनेर जबरजस्ती गरेको देखेपछि ऊ पनि कराई । बाबा हतपत ढोका खोलेर बाहिर गएर बहिनीलाई भित्र ल्याउनु भो । दुबै जनाको हात समातेर कसैलाई सुनायौ भने सबैलाई मारिदिन्छु भन्नु भयो । बाबा खाना नखाई जानु भो । म र बहिनी अंगालो हालेर रोयौं । म, बहिनी र आमालाई पनि मारिदिने भनेपछि डरायौं । आमा ३ बजे तिर चर्चबाट आउनु भयो । हामीले केहि भनेनौं । एकछिन पछि म ट्वाइलेट गएँ । पिसाब पोलेकाले म ट्वाइलेट भित्रै रोएर बसेँ । आमाले ढोका ढक्ढक्याउँदै किन यत्रो बेर लाग्यो भनेपछि खोलेँ ।


आमाले मलाई तेल किनेर ल्याउन पैसा दिनु भयो । म केहि नभनि पसलमा गएँ । म पसल गएको बेला बहिनीले आमालाई बाबालाई नसुनाउने भए दिदिलाई आज दिउँसो के भयो सुनाउँछु भनिछ । अनि आमाले बहिनीलाई बाबा घरमा हुनुहुन्न भन भन्नु भएछ । बहिनीले दिउँसो उसले देखेको कुरा सुनाउँदै गर्दा म पुगेँ । अनि आमाले मलाई सोध्नु भयो । मैले बाबाले मार्नुहुन्छ भन्दै सुनाउन मानिन । तर आमाले बाबा छैन म बाबालाई सुनाउँदिन भनेपछि सुनाए । बाबाले त्यस्तो गरेको भए प्रहरीलाई भन्नुपर्छ । जेल पठाउनुपर्छ भन्नु भयो । अनि मैले पहिला देखीको सबै कुरा  सुनाए । आमालाई सुनाउँदै गर्दा बाबा आइपुग्नु भयो । आमा बाबासंग झगडा गर्न थाल्नु भयो । मेरो छोरीलाई किन त्यस्तो गरेको भन्दै झगडा गर्नु भयो । म त्यो बेला बाबालाई छलेर बाहिर निस्किए । बाहिरबाट आमा बाबाको झगडा सुन्दै थिए । आमाले प्रहरीलाई भन्छु भन्दै हुनुहुन्थ्यो । बाबाले त्यसो गरिस भने सबैलाई मारेर म भाग्छु भन्दै हुनुहुन्थ्यो । बाबाले आमालाई कोठबाट बाहिर निस्कन दिनु भएन । अनि म दौडदैं प्रहरीमा आएँ । अनि आन्टीलाई सबै कुरा लगेर सुनाए । अनि प्रहरी गएर बाबालाई सानी बहिनीलाई लिएर भाग्दै गर्दा समाते । अब बाबालाई कारबाही हुन्छ रे, जेल जानु हुन्छ रे ।


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