When i was a kid (or when i was in Nepal), i used to believe in God. I did however have reservations on religion but i still believed in God. Its been a year in US now and having met people from other cultures, the existence of a supreme being doesnt make sense anymore. 

I think that believeing in GOd instills in a person faith, confidence and positivity to get through good times and be appreciative of the bad ones. I want my children to have these qualities so i dont want to tell them that GOd doesnt exist. Moreover, i cant imagine what my parents/relatives will make of me when i talk to them about this. It isnt going to be pretty. 

It does give me great discomfort to think about all this. I must admit i feel less confident and more pessimistic these days. I want to believe in God but my logic doesnt give in anymore. In fact, i get irritated when i hear things like "God COMMANDED you to.." "GOd will PUNISH you if..", "We are SERVANTS in from of Him" "(on Christianity): "Jesus died on the cross for you"(THere are many who have made a similar magnitude of sacrifice). 

I think that God and religion are ancient theories that havent been discarded yet. And it hasnt due to the fear in people of what might happen if they didnt. One of my teachers once said "if there is no god and you believe in god, there is no harm but if there is god and you dont believe in god, there is harm". i feel this and cultural and social stigmas lead people to be religious and not question their beliefs. 

I wanna know what you guys make of this.

भगवान एउटा मागी खाने भाडो हो अनी सक्ती प्रदर्शन को माध्यम हो । एसु को बारेमा पनि दुई चिरा पारे अनी ईस्लाम मा पनि सिया र सुन्नि अनी हिन्दू धर्म मा कती हो कती । बौध एउटा philosophy हो तर त्यसरी नबाच्ने भएर धर्म को रुपमा प्रयोग गरिन थालियो

मानबता मुल्भुत सार हो धर्मको तर त्यो देखाउने दात र खाने दात जस्ताइ हो । ब्यग्तिगत विश्वाश हो ।

191karma...your comment is one of the wisest and mature comments I have read in sajha.

191karma,

Shutting down the government because politicians are corrupt would be an over-reaction. Shutting down Wall-street because a few Fiancial advers are corrupt would be an over-reaction. Similarily, not taking the time to understand the benefits that religion gives millions of Nepalese is unfortunate and very closed-minded of the educated population. 

You stated it a lot better than I can. Thank you.

We need more wise leaders like you  that Nepalese can trust and look up to set the nation's religious culture so that it benefits Nepalese without harming them. This would allow Nepal to take advantage of the benefit of religious tourism in a sustainable manner. 
 

Has God got anything to do with religion? Any thoughts

For those atheists, how do you guys deal with your belief in your family?


Homeyji,

Won't you share your story?

I was having this discussion with this old christian guy about everyday life stuff, he is very kind, sympathatic and generous. He talks about positivity and good things but in very religious point of view. But, the way he tried to convince me to his belief system, I didn't quite like it. In a way he suggested me to believe in Jesus. When I told him about what I think about god, he was too shocked , he was almost speechless or say he was unknowingly stoked of the reality. He could not find any fallacy on what I said. He was like ' is this new age religion?'.  He was simply like.. like awe-struck...

The reason he was baffled was because I said " David , you are telling me to read few thousand years old book scripted by man, no offense please.. I'm telling myself that I should not constrict to that but rather see these things beyond that period of time when there was no religion but still there was some sort of life and civilization. Looking at these things, make me believe no religion. It's not called new age religion, and I don't even know what it is called but with surety, it's something I'd like to call as being spiritual. Mix science and spirituality, that's me. Everything that looks so supernatural, is merely the technology that we don't understand yet. There is no superstition or magic in my book, it's all physics beyond our comprehension. "

He was with surprised eye, ' so who is your god, who do you believe, what is your creator's name?' And, I replied, "my creator has got no name, though I feel her around me.. just when I get out at night , gaze at the starry sky and when I come back and see myself in the mirror , I'm alive, I feel my creator.. When I sit and meditate for hours, and see myself in the mirror, I see an aura on me for brief moment, I experience my creator.. so, it's a moment of bliss I can't describe in words.. so, just to give a clue to you.. look at yourself.. who do you think you are and why do you exist, what is the reason of your existence ,...what is the world from your perspective, there are 6 billion's perspectives and their world from those perspectives.. don't you think how amazing it is to feel that way? each and every of those consciousness is not made up of dead material, it's something,.. it's something indescribable , intangible.. that differs dead from alive. What do you think that stuff is? You may call it soul or spirit but what are those things? Those are the instances of our higher self(creator), when you say, in everyone of us there is god, that means we are just instances of our higher self. '

He was awkwardly staring at me and I was about to tell him about the fabric of dimensions, he didn't really want to get that far. I would have explained him there is no magic, no superstition , it's all science and it's just beyond our understanding and when we don't understand it, we call it simply magic or supernatural. But there is physics behind it no matter what. 

So, friend, I don't believe in any of your religion, but I do believe in one creator who designed this perfect ever expanding universe for his own entertainment. Look at this microscopic planet called earth in this vast vast galaxy.. how come we are constantly protected by zipping asteroids and comets. ?  Planet earth has it's own protective mechanism and before any stone reaches ground it turns into dust. The science behind it says it's because of atmosphere, gravity and friction in stratosphere. Yes, that is right, but who could have done to make it happen so. I don't get that answer yet. It makes me believe the creator up there probably laughing at me. 

Not believing in that ONE god is as stupid as simply refusing your own existence. You really need to change the way you think if anyone of you are strict atheist. There is no harm in thinking like me and jump on to 'pantheist' bandwagon.

@bitter_truth -

"each and every of those consciousness is not made up of dead material, it's something,.. it's something indescribable , intangible.. that differs dead from alive. What do you think that stuff is? You may call it soul or spirit but what are those things? Those are the instances of our higher self(creator), when you say, in everyone of us there is god, that means we are just instances of our higher self. "......."Not believing in that ONE god is as stupid as simply refusing your own existence." - Well said.
 

Pinpoint,

You have requested me to continue with my story, so I do.

Bitter truth, thank you for sharing your profound words. You should write more, my friend. You have amazing realizations.

Dear friends,

Yesterday, I took a walk. I took a long long walk. I needed to. Inside myself, I felt over-crowded. The demands of work, family, friends had crowded in on me. I try to meet these demands in my life. It gives me great pleasure to do so. But I was realizing yesterday that there is little space in my room for more.

I was realizing that I need to live life at the pace that I fnd it beautiful. Live too slow and the world looks ugly. Live it too fast and the world get's ugly. I need to live it at the speed of poetry.
Poetry is the language of the soul. And in our modern day of living in the rat race, it is this inner-poetry that is so easy to lose touch with.

My family could use more of my service. My work could use more of my service. I could always find ways to earn more money. More and more and more. I get so involved in the world that I don't even realize that I have lost touch with my inner poetry.

Well, when I was living in the monastery, it was very easy to maintain this poetry and be in touch with inner-beauty. There were very few demands of the external world. I lived as a monk. I had a regulated schedule I woke up at 3:45 A.M everyday. I went for celebrations. Ceremonies. Think of them as spiritual parties. It was a spiritual theme party that took the time to appreciate the beauties of the universe. There was serenity.
There was space at the temple to explore and find your own inner beauty. Modern day living does not give me this kind of space. I have to fight very hard to get the kind of space I want, the kind of space I enjoyed as a teenager living at the monastery.

So at this monastery, because of the theme, the mood and the other monks, the mood was very concentrated. The mood was very thick. It was very focussed. And you didn't have to be embarrased about pursuing your search for beauty with zeal. Finding beauty in this world is not easy. There is so much in the world that is ugly. But the spiritual practices made finding beauty so much easier.

The biggest thing you first find is space. Space from the demands of the world. Space to explore. Space to go within yourself. Space to explore yourself deep inside. I have explained what it feels like in this story of Dhruva:
http://sajha.com/sajha/html/index.cfm?threadid=85662

I felt engaged and absorbed in my meditations. I was very curious to explore the potential of what I was doing. The spiritual practices completely engrossed me. I was enchanted about the fact that having an experience like this was even possible. I was entranced by the beauty. I was fascinated that this dimension in the universe existed. The more I practiced, the more my interest level grew. I was simply intrigued by the possibilities. As time went on, I got more and more involved. My consciousness was spell-bound by the mantras that I chanted. I felt high stimulated with energy, that I can describe by no other terms than spiritual.

It was very inspiring to see the example of the other monks. I was amazed at their discipline. They led very rigorough and regimented life. My own families style of operating had been very chaotic. My parents fought a lot. So I was very happy and peaceful to be in an environment of tranquilty. The focus was only on spiritual practice. It filled me with a deep inner peace, love, reverence for spirituality. And I explored with abandon. I was a teenager. I was curious. I wanted to see where all this would take me.

In economics, there is a term: Supply creates it's own demand:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_creates_its_own_demand

If spirituality was an economic product, then it's presence created a huge demand from within me. The more I supplied myself spiritual practices and experiences, the more my heart demanded more of it. I feel that there was a vacuum in my life before I had the temple/monastery experience. It was a vacuum for a need for stability, beauty, coherence, continuity. I was looking for something solid to invest myself in. And once I experienced the tangible experiences of spirituality, I just could not get enough. I was like the starving beggar from Pashupatinath who had a feast laid in front of him.

To be continued....

i have felt god many times..harek sano baccha ma bhagwan dekhcu..harek buda-budi(old aged person) ko behavior ma bhagwan lai mahasus garcu..
mero once upon a time gf(my love and my everything) ko asu ani care ma bhagwan lai dekhcu..
dad n mom are always my god..
do does my sis n her son..
i would be loving them 4ever..sano baccha..buda budi..needy person..mom dad...sis n her son..and that's how i m folling my religon..
that's the way i worship my god..i m living beings.that is my religion..

babal khate: so in essence your example of asteroids not hitting us serves as a proof of existence of the unnamed GOD? if so, is it okay for me to make a statement "i was walking on the sidewalk this morning and i did not get hit by a single car that were speeding past me" or say  a statement like  "i was trekking  down rocky mountain i was not attacked by a single grizzly bear" therefore these examples proves that god exists. Is this valid?

A Confession of National Wickedness
	Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
	but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
	For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
	None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
	They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
	Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
	Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
	The way of peace they know not; Rom. 3.15-17 and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths; whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
	¶ Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
	We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
	We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.
	For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
	in transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
1	And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
	Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey. ¶ And the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
	And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Is. 63.5
	For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, Eph. 6.14 and a helmet of salvation upon his head; Eph. 6.17 · 1 Thes. 5.8 and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
	According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense.
	So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
	¶ And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, Rom. 11.26 saith the LORD.
	As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My Spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

 If the universe is infinite with no beginning nor end what need is there for a creator? We have always been and always will be not as humans but as cosmic consciousness. The body exists in condition of time and space. Consciousness transcends time and space therefore it is the creation of its infinite self. It is only our wordly false ego-self that seeks for answers as to whether a creator exists. There is no answer required because the question only exists in our false perceived reality.
 

Honourable ladies and gentlemen, I thank you for your offer to hop on your pantheist, monotheist, polytheist bandwagon but its too little too late as I am already on my atheist bandwagon and heading opposite direction in lightening speed.

 Hmm....interesting georgian satellite..... so based on your false perceived reality how can you say that there is no beginning and no end of the universe?......moreover how can you judge that whatever you perceived is true or false? .....ok you have reference of time and space but you have very little understanding of your own reference and you are the only observer......so you are free to hypothesize every valid theory for your observation.... with god or without god...

Universe has begun at the time of big bang. So, saying it has no end or start simply is ignorance. We just don't have that capability yet to explore/warp through stars. Being an avid science follower, yes, we seek answers , without seeking for answers we would have never known all the marvels at our disposal at the moment. All these space missions, all these gadgets, comforts and wonders you are seeing and using at this very time is the result of that human inquisitiveness(finding for answers). Because, we always wanted to find answers. Yes, we physicists are always hunting down to the core for reason for every thing moving  for it's cause. When we go back to the time, we see there was this nothingness but how the hell that one atom exploded and expanding ever since. What caused that explosion? If you think trying to find that answer is false human ego-self, then I've to hesitantly admit, ...........................

I've seen these atheists , self-centered people who was once religious but for their own selfish reasons, they turned to become atheist. Before anyone plan to object me, lemme tell you something every atheists is born religious, yes that a fact because that's how our society is made. They believed into god and stuff. And they teach their children the same manner. Just because you wished/prayed for something and it didn't get fulfilled is not a solid reason for being an atheist. But yes, tons of these so-called atheist are simply refusing the fact is because of their own selfish problems. I'm still not converying God exists in the form as many people of different faith believe. That's totally not true at least for me and my understanding.

Religion as we know today has become a center of fear to control people. It's a rule, a discipline once set by man to turn and teach savages into  becoming social human. I take religion as a book of discipline nothing more than that.

Regarding your claim of false reality and consciousness existing only in one given time and space shows how ignorant you are as I can figure it out easily that you've never sit on the ground and never ever given any time for your ownself to contemplate the things, nothingness around you. To add more from different angle, We believe there are millions of possibilities and some of them can prove that in our equations. Our universe is big mashups of dimensions. We just belong to one. We talk about time travel, warps and quantum mechanics, because we believe in dimensions.

There has been countless discussions about god and no matter what the outcome is, it is the most useless discussion there is. Why? because nothing in life is ever affected by a divine presence or a divine action. People keep dying wrongful deaths. People keep getting sick. Innocent people keep being killed. Stampedes in religious grounds keep killing hundreds each year. Religious wars keep killing thousands.

No matter how many people believe in god, has there been one single instance where there has been a positive identification of god's direct involvement in something whether or not miraculous?

God does not make a difference.

God has never made a difference.

Your loved ones will die someday and god is not going to save them. You will die someday and god will not save you.

In view of this god foresaken truth, why do you keep worrying about God? You are wasting your time. You could be doing a hundred different things to make your and your loved one's lives better but no you want to waste your time praying for shit to happen which will never happen unless you actually get off your lazy butt and do some action.

What you do, so you shall reap. That is not divine words. If you eat shit you will get sick. It is just action and reaction.

Stop talking about god and wasting your time. Enjoy what you got, enjoy your life. The closest thing to God is life. Your life and others lives. Love yourself and love others. That is all you need to do for that peace of mind you're looking for . For that heaven you are looking for. For, life is heaven on earth if you realize that every life is the god that you want so much to exist.

Every atheist is born religious? how do you know that? you are presenting an assumption as a fact which fails you there my friend....even so, if you are led to believe that unicorn is real do you really blindly follow that unicorn is real or do you want to explore and analyze the truth behind the claim? and no atheists don't turn into an atheist just because their prayers were not answered and not all atheists are self centered!! LOL is that the only reason you can think of as to why someone turns into an atheist, then you are generalization is bit too far stretched...I totally disagree with you on that.....

People are getting really serious here in this thread....
so no offense to anyone .... just for fun



Chaurey,

I like your figure up there and I think as you can't prove or disprove the existence of god it will be better to be in the side of agnostic atheist or theist....

GrgDai,

I agree with you. That is why I wrote this post up above. Let us take our energy and do something practical for Nepal. Loving religion or hating religion is not enough!
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FountainDew,

You make some excellent points.
But, they are not exclusively and only related to religion.

Think of corporate marketing. Think of advertisement. Think of brand wars. All of these are indoctrinating their own dogma on people. You are right. The mind is very powerful. And it is this power of the mind that Coca-cola uses to sell sugar-water as nectar of the gods. It is this power that Gucci uses to pay $2 to some South Asian child worker to make a purse and then to sell it for $200 in New York. It is this power allows paintings and music to be sold for millions of dollars.

Are you complaining about all of these things?

Having said that, the consumers who do not get all the above products, feel that they cannot live without it. They would feel deprived and their lives would feel meaningless. They would be sad. Many of these people feel that these corporate brands would cure them of depression and their misery. I have yet to see if believing in everything that advertisements on TV tell you is a permanent cure for a lack of meaning of one's life.
If anything, you're working like a rat in the race, trying to make ends meet all the time. Trying to earn enough money to your superficial friends. I haven't seen anyone being permanently cured of sadness by any corporate brand, unlike what they all tell you.

Are you complaining about all of this also?

Finally, all these brand wars is causing a lot of hatred between people. There are people fighting which brand is superior and which is inferior. Capitalism brings about all kinds of it's own problems around the world. Look at the streets of Kathmandu and tell me what this culture of materialistic showing-off has produced of our nation. As long as people can don the latest and greatest brands that Madison Avenue has advertised, people in Nepal feel they don't need to have any morality or responsibility for what happens to the nation. They are living in corporate Nirvana. They are in heaven. They don't need anyone else's blessings or approval.

My friend, Are you complaining about all of this, also?

Look at the 'take back Wallstreet' movement or the 'green movement' and the demonstrations happing against APEC in Honolulu this week. These movements have sprung out of needing to fight against the absolute grip of the power of Capitalism all over the world.

Are you complaining about all of this also?

So, I agree with you. There is a lot of work and attention to be focussed on practical problems happening on earth that concern us Nepalese than to spend all of our time in either loving religion or hating religion. Do you agree with me or not?

chaurey, go and ask your mom. I think she'll answer you better than me if you were born religious or not. The moment you are born, they do all kind of religious stuffs to you , from naming to all sort of pujas. yeah, my ignorant friend who doesn't think before splattering his ignorant words, you were born religious.

and talking about unicorn, I don't live in fantasy. I'm all about science. Everything behind anything, there is science. There is physics even behind your DNA. The time is not far when our cell will be working together with nano carbon matters and guess what, that'd be the size of a single cell , a nano chip. Can you imagine that? Most probably, not. In next few centuries, we'll be entering into post-human era.  I'm not trying to humiliate you in any sense , I just felt you've very limited knowledge about what's going on. And, the cheap words of yours lacking knowledge is easy to comprehend :D 

Also, I'm not trying anyone to believe me, I'm just expressing what my thoughts are.

One more thing, there are two kinds of mind. 1. practical and 2. impractical

PRACTICAL MIND.  Information oriented, fact oriented, realistic, objective, logical, practical, prosaic, rational, reasonable, sensible, straight-thinking.  Mental processes: thinking, reflecting, considering, pondering, exploring, observing, learning, inquiring, investigating, studying, weighing, debating, analyzing, figuring, calculating. 
    
IMPRACTICAL MIND.  Fantasy oriented, daydreaming oriented, imagination oriented, impression oriented, feeling oriented, image or scene oriented, visionary, impractical, airy, vapory, etherial, idealistic, unrealistic, irrational, daydreamy, romantic, dewy-eyed, in the clouds.  Mental processes:  daydreaming, fantasizing, wishful thinking, imagining. 

You are in category 2, you don't have your own mind, you follow other's and I strongly fall under category 1, I use my own mind and try to contemplate things around in the most scientific manner.

I get information and process it.  You get information and take it though you pretend you've processed it but you simply take it.

Yeah, that was one reason why ppl turned in to become an atheist. I wrote the word 'these' meaning mostly, try to understand little grammar out there. I didn't imply 'all' at all. They are free to live whatever way they think is good. There could be other reasons to turn into being atheist. I don't really care. It's their free will.