When i was a kid (or when i was in Nepal), i used to believe in God. I did however have reservations on religion but i still believed in God. Its been a year in US now and having met people from other cultures, the existence of a supreme being doesnt make sense anymore. 

I think that believeing in GOd instills in a person faith, confidence and positivity to get through good times and be appreciative of the bad ones. I want my children to have these qualities so i dont want to tell them that GOd doesnt exist. Moreover, i cant imagine what my parents/relatives will make of me when i talk to them about this. It isnt going to be pretty. 

It does give me great discomfort to think about all this. I must admit i feel less confident and more pessimistic these days. I want to believe in God but my logic doesnt give in anymore. In fact, i get irritated when i hear things like "God COMMANDED you to.." "GOd will PUNISH you if..", "We are SERVANTS in from of Him" "(on Christianity): "Jesus died on the cross for you"(THere are many who have made a similar magnitude of sacrifice). 

I think that God and religion are ancient theories that havent been discarded yet. And it hasnt due to the fear in people of what might happen if they didnt. One of my teachers once said "if there is no god and you believe in god, there is no harm but if there is god and you dont believe in god, there is harm". i feel this and cultural and social stigmas lead people to be religious and not question their beliefs. 

I wanna know what you guys make of this.

One person who has caused a huge paradigm shift in the Western world is: Deepak Chopra
http://www.amazon.com/Ageless-Body-Timeless-Mind-Alternative/dp/0517882124

Allopathy focuses on curing once the disease happens. Ayurveda focuses on prevention. Pharmaceutical companies are becoming very wealthy by selling their expensive medicines. That is why they don't want a lot of people to know about Ayurveda.

Dr Chopra has redefined what it means to be healthy. There are Nepalis who blow off Ayurveda as bakwas because it does not operate according to the allopathic paradigm of medicine. But that doesn't mean that Ayurveda does not have benefits. Dr Chopra has been able to present many types of therapies like magnetic therapy and aroma therapy. These therapies operate according to a very different model than that operated by allopathic medicine. But many people are using this therapy very effectively and are benefitting from it.

Chopra talks about the importancce of body mind and spirit working in harmony instead of working against each other. This is a completely different model than the biological model presented by allopathy--by the hard sciences. But since it has been benefitting so many people and has been helping them to be healthy and satisfied, how can you say that it is bakwas and BS nonsense?

If something helps you to be healthy and happy and satisfied, isn't that all the proof you need? Why do you need someone else to tell you how to be happy, healthy and satisfied? If you feel it, then you know it. What other proof do you need?

Ayurveda is not proof of God!

Basically, we are arguing about your basis to proof versus my basis to proof.

Ayurveda is based on an alternative paradigm to hard-science. The proof of it's effectiveness is not measured on the same basis as experiments you perform in a de-humanized labratory.

The proof of ayurveda and a lot of alternative therapies is in the pudding. It is subjectively measured by the effect on the patient. Proof of satisfaction from experiences of God is also subjectively measured. That is what religion is.

Proof from the hard sciences is necessary, but not sufficient to explain the basis of human satisfaction.

Ayurvedic medicine and Scientific medicine are comparable to English and Hindi language.

Ayurvedic medicine also consists of different ingredients that is supposed to cure just like the traditional scientific medicine.

Ayurvedic medicine is created by age old experience that is known to work rather than scientific experimentation.

You could compare the difference between Ayurvedic medicine and scientific medicine to the difference between Hinduism and Christianity.

You can compare the difference between having God and not having god to something like having medicine or not having medicine.

But your comparision about ayurvedic medicine is just wrong to prove there is God. Can you tell us how exactly ayurvedic medicine proves there is god? 

Ayurvedic medicine is also science. It cures certain ailments so it is "Proven" that it works.

How is god "proven"??

Rethink,

Why are you choosing to interpret all my words as proof of God or lack of proof?

Stop flattering yourself by giving yourself undue importance. The world does not stop turning because 'rethink' or 'Chaurey' believes or  doesn't believe in God.

What makes you think that everything that I am saying that I am proving God or not to you? Why are you giving yourself that much importance that you are interpreting everything I say as somehow giving *you* proof of God or not?

We are talking about belief systems. Not about what you personally "rethink" believe.

I care about belief systems. I can't be bothered of what insignificant individuals like you believe or don't believe. Who cares what you believe and why? Why should it matter to me? Who do you think you are?

You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself if you think that everyone in the world needs to prove what they believe and why to you "Rethink" before they can be ok with themselves for believing it.

From where did you develop such arrogance? Are you an authority of any sort?

Please scan and upload all proof of all your qualifications that gives you the arrogance to questoin everyone in the world about why they believe what they believe?

Ha ha ha. You must think that you are God, if you believe that everyone in the world needs to submit proof to you before they can believe what they believe.

Homeyji

You said it was the proof but in my opinion that was not a reasonable proof. No need to blow your fuse! You are beginning to act like a fanatic ready to kick ass of people who question your logic.

I am a nobody and you are a nobody we are nothing but specks of dust in this grand universe, and God- god is a speck of imagination of the dust because the dust thinks he's something big.

LOL

bottom line is you don't have anything substantial other than beating around the bush with your irrelevent stories. You said you were going to share your experiences which has made you so sure of GODs existence, yet you have not said a single word about it. All you have done is rant about stupid stuff. why don't you word out your GODLY experience to the best as you can.  

Yes sir Chaurey,

Since you are my Lord and Master, and you have ordered me so rudely, I will get on that immediately and give you everything you want. I owe that you to, sir. Yes sir, I will bow very low to you and get on your request immediately.

I am sorry it has taken me too much time. What was I thinking? I'm sorry. Apparantly I didn't acknowledge your importance in my life before. I do now. Sorry.

I'll drop my job and all my responsibilities so that I can get you what you what you need so that you won't insult me further. I'm really sorry for the delay, sir.

Homeyji's mistrust towards mankind that is real

"Why are you choosing to interpret all my words as proof of God or lack of proof?"
Why are you making ambiguous statements using the word proof?

"Stop flattering yourself by giving yourself undue importance. The world does not stop turning because 'rethink' or 'Chaurey' believes or  doesn't believe in God. "
I am simply questioning your ambiguous statements. I don't care to flatter myself. In fact I am giving you undue importance by deeming you capable of being reasonable.

"What makes you think that everything that I am saying that I am proving God or not to you? Why are you giving yourself that much importance that you are interpreting everything I say as somehow giving *you* proof of God or not? "
What makes you think that I think that way? You must place a lot of importance to yourself since you believe that God has singled you out to give you a divine experience. Because of that you have become a little cocky towards other general public.

"We are talking about belief systems. Not about what you personally "rethink" believe. "
This is an open topic of discussion. You don't get to tell others what to talk or think about. Only religious fanatics impose their beliefs and thinkings onto others.

"I care about belief systems. I can't be bothered of what insignificant individuals like you believe or don't believe. Who cares what you believe and why? Why should it matter to me? Who do you think you are?"
Yes in your narcissistic way you believe without a doubt that you are the chosen one. You must be mentally insane to believe that God actually chose you to show his existence. So you believe you are significant and others are not. You don't care what others believe in or feel. It does not matter to you. That is not how a messenger of god should act like. I don't think I am anybody unlike you.

"You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself if you think that everyone in the world needs to prove what they believe and why to you "Rethink" before they can be ok with themselves for believing it. "
Where did you get the idea that I have high opinion of myself? I like to express my opinion and question things that don't make sense. It seems like you think you know everything. So naive you are my friend.

"From where did you develop such arrogance? Are you an authority of any sort? "
Arrogance? You are the epitomy of arrogance. You personify arrogance by your inability to partake in logical discussion. You are not even able to express what you claim was the greatest experience of your life. Obviously, in your inflated head you don't believe we are worthy of your greatness.

"Ha ha ha. You must think that you are God, if you believe that everyone in the world needs to submit proof to you before they can believe what they believe. "
Your last sentence verifies what I was afraid of. When a man loses sanity then he believes that he is a messenger of god or even God himself. I don't care what anyone believes in but personally I would like to believe in something that is credible.

Lastly, you are a charlattan, a confused person, who does not have anything to hope for in life so you want to feel important by creating and imagining hallucinatory stories about your own greatness where you claim God interacted with you.

Try coming back with something more logical and reasonable, than proving you are too stupid to discuss intelligently.

Chaurey and Rethink,

I think I know what you are saying.

When I was living in Texas, I used to regularly go to one restuarant for lunch. There was this blonde waitress that used to serve us. At first we just said hello but as we went there regularly, she wanted to know more about me. After she found out that I was not American she asked me to tell me my story. When did I come to America? What brought me here? Etc.

So I started to tell her my story. My story began in Nepal, of course, since that was where I was born. I asked her if she had heard of Nepal. She said no.
She said, "I just came from Oklohoma to Texas not long ago, I ain't known many places around Texas."

I patiently explained to her that Nepal was not in Texas. That it was a country far away from America. I tried again. I asked her if she had heard of India. I was going to explain to her that Nepal is next to India.
She said, "Nope, ain't heard of Indya."
 So I was finding it very difficult to tell my story at this point. She was a beautiful girl and I wanted her to know how I came to this country and where my parents and all were from. But the fact that she didn't have any background about where in the world Nepal or India was made it very difficult to relay my story to her.
This girl had one of those amazing blushing smiles. So I didn't give up. I asked her if she had heard of Asia.

Her light blue eyes looked confused, she squinted her eyes and looked around the restuarant, "Yeah...yeah, I think I heard of Asia somewhere...sometime. Is that where you're from?"

Well, anyway, least to say, that as much as I wanted to tell my story to this girl, her complete lack of awareness of any place outside of Oklohoma, where she had lived her whole life, made it near to impossible to tell my story to her. There was no way that I could have told her in detail about my story that happened in Chabel, Boudha, Naxal, Ratna Park, etc, if she didn't have the faintest clue where Nepal, India or even Asia was.

So is that my fault that she didn't know anything outside of her little hometown in Oklohoma? Would it be fair to me if she blamed me that I could not tell my life story to her?

 

I thought I would give this thread a rest, but then Homiji brings DEEPAK CHOPRA, a proven CHARLATAN as his back up. Really a wrong choice Bro. LMAO! He says he uses quantum theory as a metaphor. My supervisor in college used to say "The stupid shall be punished." Now I am beginning to understand his words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcB7FIrXXI

This may interest some of you

homey ji,
that was a perfect analogy for these educated morons and bunch of I-know-all pretend clowns.
I totally agree with whatever you've written down there about that oklahoma story.
Some of these numbnuts can't be taught except books. They just don't really want to think outside the box. Their mind is nicely fed with more or less educated lies and hence been brainwashed successfully. They just don't want to contemplate. , contemplate surrounding, their very own existence.
You will get nothing from these senseless bunch of idiots  but contempt and harsh comments to ridicule you and your way of thinking. You can have dialogue with levelheaded ones but not with bunch of a*s*s*es here. I read through and most of them were spending their effort to demoralize you.
Let them feel they're jack of all trades. flaky b-a-s-tards..

geology tiger,
far*kin jerkwad fundamentalists are not evolved yet to realize that the spirit of god lies in every being. It is something to be realized through deep contemplation/meditation of one's own soul. There is no external salvation crap. Sure, isa (jesus) could have been a realized soul, but the fanatics gave a different twist to his teachings, hardening it with their egos and using it as a tool to go to war in the name of a copyrighted god. And then in balance arose another fanatic religion of Islam and so on. Deepak chopra is being hardhit because he denies christianity and all other religions. I don't even know this guy and don't have any personal sympathy but just watching his debateful videos online I can easily draw conclusion. Look at others, they're string-attached to their christianity root and some other belief systems.
What this video was about two person 1. scientist 2 spiritual leader

Spiritual leaders usually use metaphors more frequent than scientists.
Scientists go after evidence, fact and stat before any claims.

How can you even compare the thought processes of these two group of minds. It's simply unjust. It's like oil and water.
And that so called physicist asking question to chopra as if science is his fathers ancestral property looked so arrogant bigot. Everyone has a right to think their own way. Deepak chopra said on the video "a thought is an indivisible unit of consciousness" just like proton/neutron/electron to atomic nucleas(energy). Just look at at the face of that so-called physicist, he looks so confused and unenlightened when he asked the question. It was metaphor, we used that every here and there to prove relativity. What is wrong with that?

And, what's about that ' if you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory '?? Lol TV broadcasts conspiring all the time to create mass idiots. Are you one of them? Use logic... we are getting a slow and steady grip on quantum mechanics, need proof? search for quantum computer and there is already one operating. Yeah, we understand quantum theory and we already have created our first quantum computer. It's just not out for public.
What does quantum theory really mean to me? yeah, it differs by person. My view of quantum theory could be different than yours. But for me, it's all about the strange behaviours of matter and energy at very sub atomic level. Matter showing some different property and effect other than known physics when observed closely at atomic level, that's all about the quantum theory. Everything, every talk and whatever it is, if revolves around this simple fact, can be really metaphorical at times.  Quantum theory deals with the fact that energy travels in 'quanta', it can be in many places at the same time. Many theoritical physicists who happened to be spiritually mixing science with consciousness presume that our thought can be at many places at one time and that's how it's to take when thinking about quantum mechanics. In similar fashion, the bottlenecks in our today's computer's core working mechanism which is 0 and 1 has it's own limitations. There will be no binary in quantum mechanics and hence we'll start seeing unimaginably powerful and efficient computers in the future. Because quantum mechanics is just too good for human kind. We're understanding it more and more we're studying it.

I've a request, stop following that moron so called richard dawkins. He's plain stupid may be awarded with some degree on his field but he's pure moron. Follow michio kaku instead. He's the greatest physicist ever known to public after albert einstein. He has even proposed his own field string theory. This guy is so levelheaded and accurate, I simply won't hesitate to say that this guy has seen the future in the truest form.

anyway, talk of the talk, try to use your little but self-conscious powerful brain instead of jumping into rushed conclusion.

BitterTruth,

You make some interesting points. I'm not sure if I understood everything you're saying.

So in your opinion, why do you feel that people like Geology Tiger or Behoove_Me don't get it?
Is it because they are very stubborn? Or are they just plain stupid?

"There was no way that I could have told her in detail about my story that happened in Chabel, Boudha, Naxal, Ratna Park, etc, if she didn't have the faintest clue where Nepal, India or even Asia was."

Your anecdote is as disillusioned as your fanatic beliefs. Even if someone knows of Asia or India or Nepal, your reasoning is illogical. In order to dodge the main question you ramble on about some person who hasn't heard of Nepal. That does not mean they cannot understand english. We read news all the time about places we have never heard of.

In your story, the girl did not have any problems. It was you who was limited by your own limitations to tell her stories about Chabel, Boudha, Naxal or Ratna Park. You *assumed* that she would not understand, and you did not have the ability to explain to her. You have a limited mentality. You need to open your eyes.

Ok back to your story. What did you want to tell her about Chabel, Boudha that she would not understand without knowing about Asia, or India or Nepal? There is GAPING holes in your anecdote just like your belief.

If you are smart enough you can always educate someone or explain your thoughts, so stop trying to glamorize your experience if you don't have the ability to express it.

homey ji, I would not address outright 'stubborn' to anyone out here. may be they are successful and doing great things in their personal life. But, some people have split personality when they spend their time in 'second life.' They're just not what they are when they are online. Whatever I've written here is towards their expressive materials. They may be religious in real life, but their core thought could have been expressed here as atheistic view. I don't know them, they don't know me, I don't know you, you don't know me, I can't just assume they're stubborn or such.. but the expressed views in here is good enough for me to write they are 'tards for sure. 

@rethink, you don't need to understand it differently. The analogy is simple. Just because you haven't seen things or haven't experience stuffs , doesn't mean they don't exist. The oklahoma girl never heard of nepal. if he tells her there is a country named nepal, it's upto her to take it if it exists or not. But, he knows , we all know there is country named nepal. B U T, for her, it did not exist up untill he approached her and told her. It's as simple as that. That was fact-based analogy. It's indeed meaningless to discuss these things here among the bunch of ignorant confused ones. When you are being told something, you need to make an effort to get it in your heads. Instead of harshly criticizing, disrespecting other thoughts , you need to give a try to think little bit differently. 'You can only pour water in the bowl which is upward faced, you won't be able to pour water and retain it when it's downward faced. It's all waste.'
Most of your 'dhakkan' is faced downward. Try to expand your horizon of understanding, and lift the bowl to face upward. My thought is like a water, it can take any shape, in glass it's glass, in balloon it's balloon, and so on. 
These are very spiritual and philisophical stuffs I just mentioned. If you don't understand, you can with your true intention can through questions, there is no reason for you to become harsh and end up making stupid comments.


how can you write about a thing, if you've never heard of it or never experienced it? so, stfu and explore your mind.  

don't make conclusions without having any backing for it and come out here and say XYZ user is not relevent enough for me to provide any proof for it  yada yada yada.....make a hypothesis and try to prove it. work your way forward not backwards. so far what i have seen from theists is that they have drawn a conclusive end without any substantial proof and are not willing to move from it. If the girl in the story does not believe there is a country called Nepal is it not upto the story teller to show her that such a country really does exist? or do you go on creating another story with a hypothetical scenario telling her that the way she does not believe in existance of a country is wrong?  if god really does exist why should i have this doubt about it's existance anyway?

"But, he knows , we all know there is country named nepal. B U T, for her, it did not exist up untill he approached her and told her. It's as simple as that."

Some people's thinking is so simplistic it makes me wonder... It's not surprising that with their kind of mentality there are religious fundamentalists who are willing to kill people who don't believe in their gods

Bittertruth you are supporting a foregone conclusion. The anecdote does not support your nor Homeyji's beliefs.

The nepal analogy may work for some bhedas who like to follow others and agree with others, but when you are talking to intelligent, reasonable and logical people, your Nepal analogy falls flat on the face.

You can take a map and point Nepal there. You can take a ticket to Nepal and actually go there. But when it comes to God, you cannot point it out, nor can you show any evidence of God. So like a dumb nut, you will keep comparing god to wrong things because in your simplistic illogical and unreasonable mind it actually makes sense until someone points it out clearly that your example is falling flat on it's face because it does not make any sense.

At least come up with a better analogy if you can't be reasonable and logical.

This is a never ending discussions because belief and science are two separate things.

Believers think that they know god exists but they cannot prove it. If somone believes something without any proof then it can be called blind belief.

On the other hand, people who believe in science need to see proof for accepting something as truth.

I think it boils down to each person's personality. Some believe in god, some require some kind of proof.

In this discussion, Homeyji has strong belief but he is not able to give any proof that science requires. Homeyji why don't you write down your experience that you have been talking about for a long time now so that we can move on from this discussion.