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pinpoint
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Posted on 11-08-11 10:40
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When i was a kid (or when i was in Nepal), i used to believe in God. I did however have reservations on religion but i still believed in God. Its been a year in US now and having met people from other cultures, the existence of a supreme being doesnt make sense anymore.
I think that believeing in GOd instills in a person faith, confidence and positivity to get through good times and be appreciative of the bad ones. I want my children to have these qualities so i dont want to tell them that GOd doesnt exist. Moreover, i cant imagine what my parents/relatives will make of me when i talk to them about this. It isnt going to be pretty.
It does give me great discomfort to think about all this. I must admit i feel less confident and more pessimistic these days. I want to believe in God but my logic doesnt give in anymore. In fact, i get irritated when i hear things like "God COMMANDED you to.." "GOd will PUNISH you if..", "We are SERVANTS in from of Him" "(on Christianity): "Jesus died on the cross for you"(THere are many who have made a similar magnitude of sacrifice).
I think that God and religion are ancient theories that havent been discarded yet. And it hasnt due to the fear in people of what might happen if they didnt. One of my teachers once said "if there is no god and you believe in god, there is no harm but if there is god and you dont believe in god, there is harm". i feel this and cultural and social stigmas lead people to be religious and not question their beliefs.
I wanna know what you guys make of this.
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 3:17
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Are you guys familiar with the term: "Paradigm" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm
It is used in many places including management books. So it should be common knowledge to most of you. Please, any of you explain to be what a 'paradigm' is. That word is used in many different places.
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man ko kuro
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Posted on 11-09-11 3:26
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Last edited: 09-Nov-11 03:28 PM
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man ko kuro
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Posted on 11-09-11 3:28
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grgDai
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Posted on 11-09-11 3:30
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Homeyji you are dodging the relevant question like you're scared to tackle it. We're talking about god here not PN shah or definition of some word.
Can you simply answer the following question
Are you blindly believing in God or do you have some reason to believe in god. And what would be that reason? Is it something concrete or not. How does it prove that God exists?
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man ko kuro
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Posted on 11-09-11 3:32
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grgdai,
if you read the posts above you'd realize that homeyji isn't good with answering questions. the best he can do is ask you to read Gita and Mahabharat.
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 3:59
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Man ko kura and others,
You said you wanted to have an intellectual discussion with a theist. Well here is your chance. I don't plan to have this discussion on sajha all the time because I have better things to do...as I'm guessing all you do as well. But if you want to have a serious discussion, today is your chance.
Please answer this question:
Are you guys familiar with the term: "Paradigm" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm
It is used in many places including management books. So it should be common knowledge to most of you. Please, any of you explain to be what a 'paradigm' is. That word is used in many different places.
I know that all you here are educated and highly well read. So please don't be shy. I need to know that you atleast understand this much. Without understanding what the word 'paradigm' is, you wouldn't understand many of the things happening even in this world, what to speak of God.
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lovestosuggest
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Posted on 11-09-11 4:02
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This is my point of view about god..........................
Well, the question of god's existence is very old and has been debated over centuries. I don't believe in gods existence and by god i mean the god that has been perceived by many with affiliation to various religious groups.
Since childhood, I was not brought up in a typical religious way so i was not told about the so called pros and cons of denying or not worshiping gods. In my teenage, with little knowledge i had about science and logic , i often used to critically think about the about god.
All these years, i have been thinking and came to conclusion that he/she/it does not exist or putting it in other way, as far as my thinking goes he does not exist. There are things that happen in this world which i dont understand and science does not understand but it should not be named god. It can be simply called mystery.
If one day I come to conclusion that god does exist and he wants us to do certain things then I will devote myself (body and soul). I won't be living this confused lifestyle. But for now, We are nothing but a continuation of life and nature, born-eat-sleep-produce offsprings and die. Nothing, no soul, no ghost just a flesh which degrades in soil for another species to start with chemicals we we were once made; recycled.
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default061
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Posted on 11-09-11 4:04
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chaurey bro,
I was not trying to prove the existence of god by asking that stupid question. I just wanted to hear whether you believed it or not without actually seeing it by yourself which you said you would not .
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man ko kuro
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Posted on 11-09-11 4:12
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OK you got me into this one.
Based on what I've read and understood "Paradigm" is the combination of the methodologies and the theoritical underpinnings that provides a model of operation of a particular subject area.
Now here is one word for you:
"Fallacy"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
I hope you know that, right?
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 4:20
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LovesToSuggest,
I am a theist. But I don't disrespect people who don't have have the same existential stance as I do.
I appreciate your honesty and I respect your perspective. I admire your willingness and courage to be sincere and honest with your viewpoint. Really.
What you said shows me that you have thought deeply about these questions. It shows an open-mindedness. And it shows that you are being true to your belief. I respect people like that.
Honestly speaking, I respect well-thought out athiests and open-minded deep thinkers like you more than I respect sentimental theists who are simply believing God because they are weak-minded and they are doing it out of fear or culture or something like that.
My friend, I too once took your very stance that you are taking. And then one day I got the answers that I needed to change my beliefs. It was not easy. It was very difficult for me. I didn't grow up a very religious person.
Like all Nepalese I went to pujas and bhajans because my relatives did it. But I never gave it a lot of importance. I never gave it absolute seriousness. And then in my teenage years I went through certain experiences that were profound. And they really changed my perspective. These experiences were very deep.
At first I was very troubled and disturbed by these experiences. I didn't want to believe that it was happening. But after a while the power of these experiences...which happened repeatedly, made me take another look at my beliefs. I didn't want to believe it. It was scary to think what believing in this would make me do.
It was scary to imagine how dramatically my life would change if I changed my beliefs. So I totally respect what you are saying, LovesToSuggest.
It is wonderful to meet a well-thought out person like you here on Sajha. 
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 4:23
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Mankokura,
I don't fully agree with your definition of Paradigm. Please explain it in your own words.
But do you agree with my definition of fallacy: (I am simply copy pasting from Wikipedia but would be happy to explain it in my own words if you want me to)
In logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is usually incorrect argumentation in reasoning resulting in a misconception or presumption. By accident or design, fallacies may exploit emotional triggers in the listener or interlocutor (appeal to emotion), or take advantage of social relationships between people (e.g. argument from authority). Fallacious arguments are often structured using rhetorical patterns that obscure any logical argument.
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 4:50
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LovesToSuggest,
In my teenage years, my parents left me in an ashram like this one. The story of how it happened, what happened there is a long and complicated one:
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/ssc/hawaii/
But anyway, in this Ashram, I had very amazing spiritual experiences that are very hard to explain and put into words. I myself did not want to believe it despite experiencing it. I didn't want to believe it. I didn't know such experiences was possible in this world. If I had not gone through those experiences, I know for sure that I would have probably been an athiest for the rest of my life.
If you really want to hear my story and are willing to be respectful, I would be happy to tell you my story. Would you like to hear?
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lovestosuggest
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Posted on 11-09-11 5:06
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Thanks,
I would love to hear your story. Also I am flattered with your remarks in previous comments.
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mazzarella
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Posted on 11-09-11 5:26
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https://youtu.be/ZMKOUzYeZ6A
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man ko kuro
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Posted on 11-09-11 5:33
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homeyji,
I'm in no mood to play a game of vocabulary with you. I haven't invented any words of my own, so that was my best shot to define "Paradigm"; the way I've understood it. Well I'm not surprised that you disagree (for someone who disagrees the existence of PNS this is not too eccentric)
I had never asked a definition of the word "Fallacy" from you. Well if you can't think of the reason why I threw the word at you, keep thinking. Oh wait thinking isn't what theists do, go pray to your gods and goddesses(I assume you are a HIndu) for a while and you might come up with a divine revelation about why I had done that.
Don't get me wrong, you might be a very good person but this delusional worldview that you have adopted is as unscientific, irrational, and absurd as it can get. I'd definitely love to hear how that ashram changed you perceptions, and how you would defend those against the teachings at the madrassas that change the perceptions of young Muslim turning them into jihadists.
The type of arguments that you are making isn't in my view the ingredients of an "intellectual" conversation. Please come with some substantial logic and reasonings so that I can learn from you.
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 5:49
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LovesToSuggest,
I will try to explain my story to you...
Imagine a trailer of a movie that went like this:
What kind of a movie would you think this was? Have you seen a movie like this?
----------
Tall claims requires tall proof. But what happens if what you go through in life is so wild...and feels so far fetched to others that you know that they would refuse to believe it, unless you gave them enough proof. But your tale is so wild that you struggle to come up with the vocabulary that would allow you to communicate this tale with the vividity that would do the tale justice.
So years go by and you realize that you have not communicated your tale. And the longer time passes by, the more and more you have difficulty believing that your tale was true. The more and more far fetched it seems even to you. And you find yourself struggling to believe in yourself. You are struggling to believe in your own story. The world has moved on from the time your story happened. But you haven't because your tale never received the legitimacy that you sought. To reject your story would be to lie to yourself. You have too much pride to do that. But, you still don't have the vocabulary to be able to communicate your story the way you would like to--the way it would do your tale justice.
The more time passes, Would you slowly stop believing in your own truth? Would you slowly change your own version of reality in language that others would understand?
What happens when you feel that your belief in your own truth is so far fetched that you come across as arrogant to yourself to hold unto the truth of your own life that few understood? And you slowly find yourself telling yourself, "No one accepts my version of reality, so how could I have the arrogance to believe it? How dare I be so arrogant?"
And what happens if you abhor arrogance as a quality? What happens then? What happens to your truth? What happens to your belief in your self? What happens to your self-esteem? How can the truth of your story still survive within you now? Which one gets crushed so that the other may survive?
You are someone who believes in others. You believe that people rational creatures that believe in true things. You believe that the world accepts that which is true and rejects that which is false. What happens to your self-image in light of your opinion of other people and where they stand when they can't accept your truth? Do you reject yourself? Do you minimize the truth that you have lived? Do you reject them? Who takes the hit?
What happens to how much them believing in your truth matters to you before you can allow yourself to believe in your own wild tale? Will you continue to value their opinion? What happens to your self-esteem? What happens to your opinion of others? What happens to your truth? Which one changes? How do you justify which one wins and which one loses?
The problem is that...you can't find the vocabulary to communicate your tale to the world in a way the world would understand it. And the more time passes and you can't communicate your tale to the world in vocabulary that they can empathize and understand in, the longer and longer they don't give you the legitimacy to include your tale amongst the priviledged who can claim that their story is true, and not a figment of your imagination.
But you have too much pride. You find it insulting to have your story in the fiction section, when you know in your heart that it is a true story.
And you die thinking that your own tale was a figment of your own imagination and that it wasn't true. And you died accepting the lie that the world painted of who you are and what your story truly was. And the reason you did this was you didn't feel the world was ever ready to be to truly accept who you were deep inside your heart. And you couldn't reveal to the world what they would reject of you. You never found the vocabulary to be able to tell your story in a way that you knew the world would accept you.
What a quandry that would be, eh?
What would this kind of movie look like, do you think? How would such a movie be?
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Pulsar_Beat
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Posted on 11-09-11 5:50
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Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence!- Carl Sagan
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 6:38
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LovesToSuggest,
Please explain what you understand about my story so far, and I will tell you more.
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Homeyji
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Posted on 11-09-11 7:14
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Can you guys imagine what it's like to live in an ashram? Have any of you lived in an ashram? Do you know how strict it is?
There was no newspaper, no TV. This was before internet was all prevalent. So there being no internet was no big deal.
But I don't think that most of you can even imagine what it is like to live in a strict ashram setting. Can you?
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mero_desh
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Posted on 11-09-11 7:25
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Who believes in books these days? Logic and arguments never end; they will lead you nowhere.
Here's my genuine experience if anyone wants to read-
I was interested in things like meditation, reading religious books (i.e Gita and books/excerpts from Vedas) since early adolescence. From what I remember, the first time I read the Bhagvad Geeta was around the time when I was in class 9, at the library in RNAC office building near New Road Gate. I had gone there to buy course books for my class, and we used to get used/old text books that they used to sell in the streets in that area for cheap price.
Every weeks, I used to shut my eyes and sit down for meditation; i would say roughly 5-7 times per week. I didn't have a fixed schedule or whatsoever. Nobody taught me anything, forced me into it. It was just that i used to have that urge from inside to just close my eyes and sit down.
I came to the States in fall 2004. My so called urge to "meditate" was still there. May be once/twice a day, i used to sit down in my room and close my eyes. I was living with another friend from Nepal sharing the same room; that didn't discourage me, in fact, he seemed to be interested in it too after a while.
Around 2005 Jan (don't remember the exact date), I sat down for meditation like usual. By then, I had created an exact schedule for meditation (4:00 am and 5:30 pm). I was just sitting down, and it felt like something was pulling me inwards, not physically, but my thoughts, and attention were vanishing. I can't find the exact terms to describe, but i was being absorbed into something. I wanted to get up, but something was absorbing me. All these years, i had to put my own effort, but today without effort, i was being absorbed. I wasn't doing anything. I was all happening. I stayed in that posture for about 45 min. That was my usual timing. During the evening meditation, I felt the same. Within about 45 seconds of closing my eyes, I used to be "pulled within". It used to be a very nice experience. Everyday, whenever I had sometime, i just used to sit down and close my eyes, because i knew i would be "pulled inside". I felt i had gained something, or may be, crossed a barrier where one had to learn to focus his/her mind. I could easily do it now effortlessly.
It used to be a wonderful experience. No pain, worries about tuition, job, due papers, due rent bill; it was as it if had found myself a secret crib/heaven where i could escape to whenever i wanted; and in this place, nothing would reach/touch me. I would to be in my own ecstacy. I have never tried smoking/pot/etc; so please don't relate that here. I used to sit down for meditation like more than 5/6 times a day; my room mate used to ask me if i was all right. After waking up, in between classes, play time, before work, after work, while daal/rice was cooking, i used to be meditating; i happened all so easily.
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