Loote da Hunk -

Hey, its nice not be afraid to disagree sometimes - wouldn't you agree? ... he he. I realize I am putting a lot at stake by taking this up with you but I trust our friendship is strong enough to survive this conversation. With that said, please see my comments below:


"the best medicine, in most instances IMO, is to ignore.

We'll just have to disagree there. To me that is cowardice - sorry I can see it no other way. Note I am not passing judgement about you the entire person but merely that one act. So you are not a coward but the act of ignoring, beyond a reasonable threshold, regardless of who does it, you or me, is cowardice as far as I am concerned. It's a whole other story as to when one should let go.

One of the most fundamental things in dealing with bullies - whether they be of the overtly dominating and omnipresent type or the hide and run guerilla type, is to challenge their act so that they realize, sooner or later, there is a consequence to what they are doing. Ignoring them, beyond a certain point, is absolving them of personal responsibility IMO and giving them a free ticket to walk over you and others. If that's the choice some people want to make, I have nothing to say, but I am on the side of people who will not let such BS go unchallenged because , in all humbleness, I am one of them. I suspect that is also true of quite a few others here on Sajha.

"i don't want to offend any particular individual here, but just for the sake of point i am trying to make to make things clearer, posters like samsara is bound to attract more trolls if he keeps going back at them like there is no tomorrow. as much as i personally admire him for some sensible posts he's written, i candidly don't entertain his come-back attitude towards the trolls. you reap what you sow.

In my opinion, you are asking the wrong person to shut up. I don't know enough about Torikophul to pass judgement on whether or not (s)he can be considered a troll or not, but generally speaking, if we put this specific episode aside, I think the person who is disrupting threads to settle a personal grudge should be the one to shut up. I say that, again, based not on this thread, but some other recent threads I have seen where it's just abuse after abuse with no purpose other than putting the other person down.

(Torikphool, none of this is directed at you personally - hope you wont take offense as I have nothing against you)

Also, while you can't feed the agenda of such people, you can't appease them either by letting them get away with such egregious acts. To me, there is a balancing act involved, and challenging such behavior, again with the caveat of knowing when to let go, is the right thing to do.

I'll also say that is different from cases where otherwise reasonable people sometimes loose it over something that later appears trivial. As long as a person does not willfully spoil other threads to settle their grudge, I can see where ignoring, up to a higher threshold, might make some sense.

as they say, can't clap with just one hand. there are plenty of closed forums where like-minded people come together, where stalking is very rare to nil. people who find sajha full of trolls can perhaps entertain themselves more in there. an open forum like sajha is bound to have people of all levels of temperament and intellect.

If I understood the implications of that statement correctly, people who cannot take BS from others should find other sites to go to? If so, that's quite amusing and frankly surprising coming from you.

A couple of things on that:

(1) Such a decree will have to come from San. If that's what he wants, I am sure Samsara will not be the only one out. I am prolly next on the list and a few others too will need to pack their bags. Who knows maybe at the end of the day only the trolls might be left in this place ... (that's in jest ... ha ha )

(2) It contradicts the last sentence where you seem to be urging tolerance. I don't see how implying someone should leave can be considered tolerance.

That said, I do agree with the ethos of the last statement - this is a great place because we have people of different economic, social, political and cultural backgrounds - men and women, boys and girls of different ages from different places. In many ways we are a microcosm of Nepal. Conflict is all but natural when interests collide and we all fight for precious real estate on the home page - which to me is at the core of the conflict. That's where San bro needs to make an executive decision and decide which direction he wants to take Sajha in should the conflict become untenable and disrupt the functioning of the site. Hence my suggestion for having groups and sections which I think is the best shot we have at ensuring every body gets a voice and a fair amount of real estate on Sajha.

Hope you aren't too mad at me. Having known you for a while, I did sense some strong feelings in your past post, so thought I'd share my side of things and lay it all out on the table. It makes me feel better to have done so :) I guess we just approach this from two very different places and therefore are beating different drums.

I look forward to reading any further thoughts you might have on the subject.

Best wishes.

:)