(These two pieces were parts of a heated discussion on corruption in Nepal at 'Nepal Democracy' Google Group, which is, as some of you know, is a closed club of self-styled pro-democracy activists. So the discussion is not available publicly.)

Nepe's theory on corruption:

1. I think, corruption is a default state of any society. So looking for sources of corruption is absurd. (see ? I told you, I have strange theories !)

2. Corruption is something that gets manifested. It is not something that gets originated.

3. A discussion on corruption make sense only in the context of how to prevent it. In everything else, it is absurd.

4. Since corruption does not have a source (it is omnipresent), prevention of corruption is essentially defining/determining it and placing punitive measures.

5. Defining/determining corruption needs- this is second strange theory of mine- a 'point of beginning'. Of course it needs brain and will power too. However, they can do nothing if a 'point of beginning' is not available.

6. The above is where went wrong in Nepal. Any time during the earlier years after 1990 could/should have been a 'point of beginning'. That did not happen. A continuum of pre-1990 was maintained after 1990. This is where the problem lies and therefore where the answer lies as well.

7. A 'point of beginning' is basically a point of total freedom to define corruption.

8. Give Nepal a point of beginning. That's the only way. There is no other way to find cure to existing corruptions.

9. Do not worry about newer corruptions. Because it is pointless. The measure you place to cure the existing corruptions will take care of the newer corruptions.

10. So, the answer to Nepal's corruption is to have a point of total freedom to define corruptions, place punitive measures and let the land of the law become the monarch.

The rest will be taken care of by vibrant civil society and full democracy we expect to have in near future. If something still gets leaked--and leaked they will-- we will have to learn to live with that, re-defining them as acceptable corruptions, if needed.


*** *** *** *** *** ***

Nepe's roadmap to clean Nepal:

Corruption in Nepal is so extensive and rooted, some patch work is not going to take care of it. I think we need to think it in terms of a road map just like the one for democracy.

I do have a road map for taking care of corruption in Nepal. Once again the major part of it is really strange.

Without further ado, let me put down my road map to fight corruption in Nepal. It has three steps. I have already described the step one in some way.

STEP 1: A POINT OF BEGINNING

As I explained earlier, this is basically an understanding of total power (call it a full democracy, supremacy of the law, republic or whatever). An all powerful state forms an all powerful anti-graft body. CIAA is already there. So basically, making it all powerful and resourceful is what is needed.

STEP 2: RECONCILIATION PERIOD

Actually, I don't know what name to give to it. However, the idea is to give a very liberal opportunity to all defaulters (of all time, all type and all ranks) to voluntarily submit to CIAA what they have benefited. It is logistically a very complicated issue indeed. However, the idea is an opportunity for a voluntary reconciliation with hope that most of the defaulters will take this opportunity and very little will be left for CIAA to go after. Let's say, CIAA announces a 6 months period for this. Those who will submit during this period will not be taken further action against, except for checking authenticity of the claims if CIAA feels so.

STEP 3. NEW ERA OF ZERO TOLERANCE

This commences immediately after the Reconciliation period is over. Zero tolerance explains it all. Politically this period might look like a semi-authoritarian statehood (Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore !). I do not know how politically incorrect I might sound, but if a strict implementation of the rule of law is what that is, then so be it.

So, this is it. The roadmap to a clean Nepal. It is needless to say that this roadmap is only possible in a full democracy. Compromise, negotiated settlement, hyan-tyan have are no alley to this road.

_______________________

no matter how much you clean your bathroom, it is bound to get a little dirty. therefore, one should not clean bathrooms. instead, we should let them get as filthy as one of the kathmandu public shitholes

Dear Nepe Sir...

I have been following this thread with amusement for some time, just when you are about to make some sense, you confuse me further. I am a simple person and I prefer to think in simple terms as oppose to "Grand theories", whether it be yours or our own Girija. So in this relation, could you define me corruption in more tangible form? I know you will probably say..."but bhai that really is what I am trying to do", but then sir you have mentioned it so many times that I am actually inclined to think that you know exactly what you are talking about...haina? or are you proposing a dual nature of corruption: it is omnipresent (i.e exists everywhere in space and time) but cannot be defined...yet it ought to have a "point of begining"....eh? So should I conclude that our great Nepe has finally lost his mind?...no offense hai da... pheri...;)

>If you are serious about improving ND group, may
>I propose to invite you in the group ?

It would be nice of you. I hope it is only a technical factor why ND is not available for public to view and review. Thanks.

If Nepe's "closed club" is able to bring democracy in Nepal

"closed club of self-styled pro-democracy activists. So the discussion is not available publicly."

it's constitution will say that democracy is only available in closed club of select group of people who think like them, never argue with them. And the Democracy will not be available publicly.

In jest.

Rishi-jee,

I have sent an email to you.

Nepe

एमेल पाँए। ध न्यबाद । तर ...

सोझो बाटो हिडेको कारणले गर्दा म कुनै pro-democracy movement -मा सहभागि हुन सकिन। कलेज गयो, पढ्यो, लोक सेवा आयोगको जाँच दियो, अनि जागिर खायो। मलाई तेस्तो pro-democracy movement-मा सरीक हुने सुबिधा प्राप्त भएन।

एउटा जे भने पनि तेहि Washington DC मा भएको rally मा गएको त हो, तर म pro-democracy र pro-king दुवैमा गंए।

For these reasons, my involvement in pro-democracy activities is far too limited. Please let me know my likelyhood of getting in, and I will proceed.

Namaste.

Ashu states," clear position on the notion of democracy as discussed and practiced by ANY self-selected group of like-minded in any form is pretty much akin to Tulsi Giri's cabinet. "
I agree with Ashu here. Seems like every so called self claimed leaders seem to have the same notion about democracy too. The Commies are thinking one way, The Congree's thinking the other way, The King thinking one way. But has anyone bothered asking what the PEOPLE want(well Gyaney prolly wouldn't give a shit) ?

Commies think they are the best solution for the country.
Rebulic supporters think they are the best solutions.
Monarchists thinkt they are the only solution.
The crony Politicians think they should have the power back because they were legally elected. Blah blah blah

This is one reason why the country is in the state it is today.
There are like 8 or 9 different organizations trying to pull the country their way. Ignoring the consensus of the people. Then there are Bheda's and Bakhra's who blindly follow these Crony parties(thinking their party will win and can cash in their chips when the time comes).

I see noting but oppertunists here. All the folks that come in here making all the political noise are nothing but just like a sitting duck waiting for Spring season so they can go back to Nepal and claim their fame(ho mailey pani Sajha.com ma yesto yesto garya thiye malai pani auuta Kursii dinu paryo he he ). I am sure the likes of NEPE, Poonte, Prajatantra, Birbhadra are going to be the first in line there to cash in their Chips.he he !

ऋषिजी,

मेरो व्यक्तिगत विचारमा र ND मा भएको नजिर अनुसार राजनैतिक पृष्ठभूमि हुन पर्छ भन्ने छैन, तर तपाईले दुई डुङ्गामा खुट्टा हाल्नु भएको रहेछ, त्यो पनि ND group लाई नै परिभाषित गर्ने मामलामा, त्यसैले ND group संभवत: तपाईको लागि too narrow, too small होला जस्तो लाग्छ । pro-king समूहसंग पारपाचुके गर्नु भयो भने बेग्लै कुरा हो ।

Nepe

"सोझो बाटो हिडेको कारणले गर्दा म कुनै pro-democracy movement -मा सहभागि हुन सकिन। कलेज गयो, पढ्यो, लोक सेवा आयोगको जाँच दियो, अनि जागिर खायो। मलाई तेस्तो pro-democracy movement-मा सरीक हुने सुबिधा प्राप्त भएन।

एउटा जे भने पनि तेहि Washington DC मा भएको rally मा गएको त हो, तर म pro-democracy र pro-king दुवैमा गंए।"

LOL. Sarai ghat lagyo. :)
---------

A request:
Can some please let me know what ND stands for? Anyone?

Thank you.

IndisGuise:)

Don't you guys think this is really funny?

A joke in 5 parts.
The joke is on Nepe, of course!

*****
PART 1.

Nepe to R Baral

"If you are serious about improving ND group, may I propose to invite you in the group ?"

******

PART 2:

Nepe to R Baral

"Rishi-jee, I have sent an email to you."
[Presumably an email invitation to join the group!]

**********

PART 3:

R Baral to Nepe

"एउटा जे भने पनि तेहि Washington DC मा भएको rally मा गएको त हो, तर म pro-democracy र pro-king दुवैमा गंए। For these reasons, my involvement in pro-democracy activities is far too limited. Please let me know my likelyhood of getting in, and I will proceed."

**************

PART 4:

Nepe to R Baral
(Notice how now Nepe -- having warmed up to R Baral earlier -- now tries to bump him off)

"मेरो व्यक्तिगत विचारमा र ND मा भएको नजिर अनुसार राजनैतिक पृष्ठभूमि हुन पर्छ भन्ने छैन, तर तपाईले दुई डुङ्गामा खुट्टा हाल्नु भएको रहेछ, त्यो पनि ND group लाई नै परिभाषित गर्ने मामलामा, त्यसैले ND group संभवत: तपाईको लागि too narrow, too small होला जस्तो लाग्छ । pro-king समूहसंग पारपाचुके गर्नु भयो भने बेग्लै कुरा हो । "

********

My question: Whatever happened to Nepe's earling public saying about inviting R Baral to if he's serious about improving the ND group?

Obviously, Nepe has conveniently forgotten the PREMISE on which he based his earlier invitation to R Baral.

*******

Conclusion?
Draw your own.

oohi
"For me, Sajha.come has been a great window to understand human behaviours in all its form"
ashu

The humor observed by Ashu aside, it has been a great window to understand human behaviours such as how Ashu or Nepe never fails to ridicule each other at any chance they get.

Someone bring the scoreboard.

Ohooo joor nai ako bela ni ghar na gai kana patta lagayera nai chade.

ND = "Nepal Democracy" raicha :)

So it was Nepal Democracy Google Group. Hehe.

It is fortunate of us lesser mortals to have an opportunity to have a "dekho" and gauge the presumed or otherwise, (either way) democratic intellectual luminaries and their vision, be it in as bits and pieces excerpts as it may be. I do sincerely hope that we are fed upon time and again with these "significant" coterie's sanitized "democratic" discussions. After all we, in sajha lack capability to bring or understand thought provoking discussions like the NDGG. :)

Just out of the blue, a thought stuck me. The most misrepresented word in Nepal is "democracy" itself, IMO. Or maybe I am wrong. :)


At the risk of making a complete fool out of me, might I as well go on the record to say, Sajha, is the most democratic forum that I have come across. But what do I know? Like I said, "democracy" is the most abused word in the context of Nepal. (By everyone, I meant everyone. The elites and us ignorant alike)

I mean, it must be democratic if "they" say so.

Now, an honest suggestion to NDGG people:

For the sake of being credibkle in the real sense, a general populace, as ignorant and stupid as they may be, like us here in sajha; it would only increase your credibility in some respect if you make the discussion public to VIEW, at least. I know the pseudo or real democratic elites can not tolerate an argument from even remotely opposite views, let alone polar-opposite ones.

Not that it matters, but if NDGG can not show the "thought provoking" for us commoners, at least remove "democracy" from the group's name. Just a suggestion hai feri. :)

Maybe the person who thought about the group's name has a sharp sense of humor. May be I just failed to grasp it. LOL.

Astu!

IndisGuise:)

Bathroomcoffee,

well you accused me of being opportunist. and said i'm waiting for my chance to cash in for fame ? how many people know who birbhadra is? no one does.

Yeah yeah yeah Bir,
When the time is right you are going to cash in your chips. Just like Nepe, and Poonte(aka Anil Shahi). I am not talking about this very instance. When the time is right you're gonna be like- "Tyo Sajha ko Birbhadra Ma nai ho. Mero Bhaag Khoi ta ?" ha ha ha !

"Nepe's theoy on corruption"--the title sounded like "Einstein's theory of relativity" or something so I was expecting some interesting statements along with reasonable proofs. Unfortunately, I could only see, "I think that...this and that'.
I think "Nepe's views on corruption" would have made a better, realistic and less egoistic title. :)

Oh well trust bathroomcoffee to turn any topic into a personal confrontation with another poster about a completely different topic.

Regarding the Theory and Roadmap, I am curious whether Nepe is posting his initial posting there. OR, is he posting an improved version which was the result of the ensuing discussions there?

BitOwayne,
And you are not off the topic here attacking me huh ! SMARTASS THINK HE IS LORD BUDDHA !! Maybe someone needs to give you a grannyglasses to see if my posts were pertaining to the subject or not. And I was talkijng to Ashu not you, if you can catch my drift ....ha ha ha !!!




It was egg slad by the way. ha ha ha !!!

Mr. Lonely,

Agreed. However, the title was a little gimmick to attract more visitors. It works.

*** *** ***

Bidwan,

It is the original (unedited) piece.

This particular series of discussion on corruption got originated from a poster's point that there was a TACIT agreement between political parties and then King, Birendra, regarding amnesty to Panchayat's corruption. I built my arguments on that.


*** *** ***

Indisguise,

"Nepal Democracy" referes to the theme the group discusses about. The group itself is not a democratic one IN THE SENSE that it is a CLOSED and NON-INCLUSIVE club of self-styled activists opposed to the King's regime in Nepal.

Those who oppose the king's regime unambiguously have room in it. Those who don't don't. People of the later category are banging their head on the wall. And there is nothing that can be done about it. Kura tehi ho.

>At the risk of making a complete fool out of me, might
>I as well go on the record to say, Sajha, is the most
>democratic forum that I have come across.

Absolutely. For those who need the most democratic forum, we have Sajha. We don't need one more Sajha.
__

"For those who need the most democratic forum, we have Sajha." he he
What is the difference between Democratic and Most Democratic ?
If Sajha is most Democratic then yours must be dictatorship. Which means your point of veiw is not a SAJHA(general population) veiw. And its people like you who are steering the public into fractions instead of Uniting them. And I have a problem with that NEPE.