Was going thru' sajha archive and found this thread of 2003 where a few of us were engaged in solving puzzles and introducing new ones. Sadly, the very last puzzle that i posted hasn't been answered yet ( It is, in fact, one of the classic logic puzzles created by Raymond Smullyan). Sajha has changed a lot since then with a lot of new members added to it . I thought if anybody with strong passion for logic and/or puzzles wanna give it a try. So here it is once again:
(A puzzle! --- revisited )
http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=8932&dsn=sajhaarchive

"The Last Puzzle":
http://www.geocities.com/arch119/reynold.html

BTW, the title might be a bit misleading. It IS solvable and all it needs is one flash of brilliancy and few deductions.

Prolog -
Inspector Reynolds of Scotland Yards, in search of the "Fountain of youth", arrives at the Island of Knight and Knaves. Only 2 kinds of ppl live in this island ,as u might have already guessed, the Knights and the Knaves .Knights always speak the truth. Knaves always lie.
There was a rumor that the "Fountain of Youth" lies in this island, drinking the water of which will bring about Reynold the immortality, he always dreamt of.

Le Grande Metapuzzle -
The following day, Reynolds came across two natives A and B and said to them,"Please tell me whatever you know about the Fountain of Youth. Is it on this island ?" The two natives then made the following statements:
A: If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island.
B: I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island.
Reynold thought about this for a bit and said, "Please, now, I want a definite answer!Is the Fountain of Youth in this island?" One of the two answered - he either said yes or he said no - and Reynolds then knew whether or not the Fountain of Youth was on the island.
Some months later, Reynolds told the above facts to Inspector Craig. Craig said,"It is obviously impossible for me to deduce from the facts you have given me whether or not the Fountain of YOuth is on this island. You haven't told me whether A or B was the one who answered your second question, or what answer he gave.Whichever one it was who answered, suppose the other one had answered instead.Do you know if you could then have decided whether or not the Fountain is on the island ?"
Reynolds thought about this and finally told Craig whether or not he knew whether he could have decided had the other one answered the second question instead.
"Thank you," said Craig."I now know whether or not the Fountain of Youth is on the island."
Is the Fountain of YOuth on the island?
-----------------------------------------------------
Yes, the fountain is on the island.

Reasons

-(1)- A said "Yes"
~Then A is Knight and and B is Knave.
Because: If A is Knave, He has said ""If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island." i.e. If B isn't knave, then fountain of youth is on the island. and B has proclaimed "I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island." Now, A can't support B by saying "Yes" as A will be telling a truth, as prologue goes:

*Inspector Reynolds of Scotland Yards, in search of the "Fountain of youth", arrives at the Island of Knight and Knaves. Only 2 kinds of ppl live in this island ,as u might have already guessed, the Knights and the Knaves .Knights always speak the truth. Knaves always lie.
There was a rumor that the "Fountain of Youth" lies in this island, drinking the water of which will bring about Reynold the immortality, he always dreamt of. *


-(2)- A said "No"
~Then A is Knave and B is Knight
Because: If A is Knight, he has said "If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island."And B has proclaimed "I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island." i.e. He has always claimed "The fountain of youth is not on the island". i.e. The fountain is on the island, Then A can't say "No" i.e Speak Lie.

-(3)- B said "Yes"
~Then B is Knight and A is Knave.
Because: If B is Knave, he has said "I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island.".i.e.: he always claimed "It is not in the island". Now When He says "Yes" because He will be speaking truth.

-(4)- B said "no"
~Then B is Knave and A is Knight.
Because: If B is Knight, He has said "I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island.". Then he can't say "No" and deny the fact he has already stated.

Thank you...Hope its the solution...अलि लामो छ है पढ्नु होला तै पनि!!!;)
Nirman~*

>>Nirman. Thanks for the endeavor.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
-(1)- A said "Yes"
~Then A is Knight and and B is Knave.
Because: If A is Knave, He has said
"If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island." : Proposition X
i.e. If B isn't knave, then fountain of youth is on the island. : Proposition Y
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Here , you have used Proposition Y as the negation ( one having the opposite meaning ) of Proposition X. But, this is logically incorrect.

The opposite of a sentence: "If A , then B" is not "If not A, then B".
This might sound quite counter-intuitive but a serious comtemplation will make it clear. [ Any good book on logic will have a clarification about this. ]

As for the answer to this puzzle , I won't go there right now because there can be only 2 answers: "Yes" or "No". What I want is a logically correct deduction.

But that's the way to start solving a logic puzzle. So keep on trying.

म पनि ट्राइ मारम है।
*** *** ***
Case1
A being Knight
A:If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island.
Yes
Return "Yes!"
B: I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island.
Yes(He always lies ढाँट न जो प-यो।)>NO
Return "No!"
घरि Return Yes हुन्छ घरि No हुन्छ, Result बाझियो, यो त भेऽन नि।

Case2
B being Knight
A:If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island.
No (He always lies ढाँट न जो प-यो।)>Yes
Return "Yes!"
B: I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island.
Yes
Return "Yes!"
यहाँसम्म कुरा मिल्यो है।

In case1 the real answers are different. Impossible.
So take case2. case2 भित्रै

Case21
A responds:
Yes: Contraditcion to his earlier answer in case2.त्यसैले चुप।
No: (He could answer here.) किन बोलेन त नि? उसले उत्तर दिएनछ। ढाँट्न जान्दैन। Yes भनम् भने सहि उत्तर था हुन्छ भनेर नबोली बस्यो।त्यसैले चुप।
Return "Yes!"

Go to case22
Case22
B: responds
Yes: (Same answer in case2) हैन भनेर त पहिलै भनिसकेँ नि कति सोध्या? त्यसैले चुप।
No: (Contradiction to his answer in case2) उल्टो कुरो के बोल्नु? त्यसैले चुप।

Return "Yes!"

Yes: (Same answer in case2) हैन भनेर त पहिलै भनिसकेँ नि कति सोध्या? त्यसैले चुप। >
Yes: (Same answer in case2) Yes भनेर त पहिलै भनिसकेँ नि कति सोध्या? त्यसैले चुप।

>>Dada_giri
Khoi dada , I didn't get anything you said.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Case1
A being Knight
A:If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island.
Yes
Return "Yes!"
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I think, you have assumed that one of them is a knight and the other is
a knave but that is not stated anywhere in the question. We only know that the
occupants of the village are either a Knight or a Knave.

Yes I assumed Knight as Knights & Knave as Knaves.
हैन र भन्या? हैन भने अर्को उपचार गर्नुपर्ला।

Knights are Knights and Knaves are Knaves. That's a tautology.

(A, B) might be (Knight, Knight), (Knight, Knave) , (Knave, Knight) or (Knave, Knave) but it seemed to me from your answer that you have assumed (A, B) as either (Knight, Knave) or (Knave, Knight).

OK, here's a hint:

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
A : If B is a knave,then the Fountain of Youth is on this island.
B : I never claimed that the Fountain of Youth is not on this island.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Using only this information, we can deduce that A is a Knight. How ?

Arch,
Do you mean that
because B says "I never claimed ...not..." or sth like "I didn't say no" or "I never said no" and that you don't know for sure whether he ever claimed it in the past or not => that's why he is (might be) not speaking the truth.

B ले रकमी कुरो गर्यो भनेर B लाई knave भनेको त होइन होला, त्यसो हो भने त मैले पनि बेला बेलामा रकमी कुरो गर्नी गर्छु ।कसले गर्दैन र बेला मौकामा रकमी कुरा ?

नाम पनि arch119, कुरा पनि 119 थरिका र बाङ्गा र टिङ्गा गर्नु हुँदो रहेछ ।एउटा कुरा नी, यस्तो यस्तो गरेर आखिर के पाईन्छ त ?

Keep rolling...

>>shree5

Where did I say that B isn't (might not be) speaking the truth ??????

A knight र B knave हुँदा कुरो त मिल्छ तर कसरी भनेर logical derivation चाहि पत्ता लाउन त खोज्या हो, तर सकिएन। लौ, पास ।

मेरो पहिलो प्रश्न नी,
१) यस्तो यस्तो गरेर आखिर के पाईन्छ त ?

उसो भए arch119लाई (मात्र, अरु दर्शक मात्रै भैदिनुहोला प्लीज) मेरो अर्को प्रश्न :

२) दुई जना आँखा नदेख्ने मान्छे, A र B नै सही, रहेछन। तर तीनका आ-आफ्ना परिवारमा अरु मान्छे भने आँखा देख्ने पनि रहेछन। शहरमा गएर दुबैले आ-आफूलाई एक-एक जोर राता, नीला, र सेता मोजा किनेछन्। पसलेले "छुट्टा छुट्टै पोको पारिदिने त होला नि" भन्दा "मूला, अन्धा भनेर हेप्ने, तेरो पैसा तिरिदिए भइहाल्यो नि, एकै ठाउँमा पोको पारिदे" भनेछन। अनि घर जाँदा छुट्टिने बेलामा कुनै तेस्रो मान्छेको सहायता नलिइकन आ-आफ्ना भागका मोजा लिएर गएछन्। कसरी आ-आफ्ना भाग छुट्टयाउन सके होलान तीनले, आँखा पटक्कै देख्दैनन्, दिन पनि रात बराबर, ल।

फेरि अर्को प्रश्न :
३)यस्तो यस्तो गरेर आखिर के पाईन्छ त ?

Keep rolling...

हाहाहा श्री ५ !
मैले जान्दिएँ। भन्दिन।

Arch119 ब्रोको उत्तर मिलिसक्या छ के।
A: Knight, B: Knave Answer: Yes!

लौ अब श्री ५ लाई सोधुम्।

हेर्नुस् श्री ५, ३ जोडी भनुम् न च्याँके/लिखे(A+a), गोबिन्दे/उजेली(B+b), ठगे/फुलमाया(C+c)
भागेर निस्केछन् लाहुर जान भुनेर।
बिचमा प-यो आँधीखोला। तर्नु परेन?
एउटा मात्रै डुगाँ छ, खोला वारी नै छ, है सुरुमा। २ जना भन्दा चढ्न मिल्दैन डुबिहाल्छ नि।
तर सबैलाई आउँछ है डुगां खियाउन त।

तर समस्या के छ भने नि। आफ्नो जोडिबाट छुट्टियो (वारि/पारि भो) भने नि अर्को कुनैपनि केटाले कुनैपनि कन्याको इज्जत लुट्न सक्छ।
ल भन्नुस् कसैको पनि इज्जतमा दाग नलाग्ने गरी कसरी आँधि तार्नुहुन्छ?

1. A+a cross the river.
2. ??
3. ??
4. ??
???

>>dada_giri
Too quick to come to a conclusion.

>>shree5
If you don't like solving puzzles, it's fine. I like it and that's why I do it. Neither do I get a penny for solving these puzzles nor does it bring peace to our country. So, to answer your first and third question, I do it just to keep my mind busy ( I cud have talked about politics, blah blahed about maobadis and shit but then I find it fun to play with puzzles and I do it. ) Any questions ?

Thanks for your second question. Although it seems more to me like a riddle than a puzzle, I will try to think about it in my leisure. Now, I am not God to be able to solve a riddle right off.

And by the way, why is it only for me ? You wanna prove something to me ? Is there a secret knowledge you have gained and you wanna teach it to me in front of everybody in Sajha ? You wanna act smart ? Ok ,you are smart. Now f**k off.

भनेसी सबै अहिले पिपलटारीमा रचन, आँधी पारि वालिङ्ग भयो।
Sign convention: माथी हुनी खाले (uppercase or capital letters) जति केटा, तल हुनी खाले (lowercase or small letters) जति केटी मुन्छे, भागेर लाहुर, बम्मै जान लाऽका।
1. A + a go to Waling-ward
2. A comes back to Pipaltari shore
3. B+b go to Waling-ward
4. a comes back to Pipaltari shore while B+b remain in the Waling-shore.

Repeat for C,c; {C,c} as in {A,a} or as in {B,b}

हो कि जस्तो लाग्यो ;)

Keep rolling...

Alrite arch119

So I learnt you also know the four-letter word, and "I never claimed you are not smart".

The puzzle/riddle OPEN TO EVERYBODY.

Keep rolling...

>>shree5

> So I learnt you also know the four-letter word,
Who am I ? A kindergarten kid, not to know the f-word ? I not only know it but use it quite often to express my various emotions ( because of the lack of vocabulary ). Here are some contexts where I use it:
- http://www.edict.com.hk/vlc/listening/montypython/useframes.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F**k#Linguistics
(substitute "**" by "uc")

>and "I never claimed you are not smart".
Neither am I smart nor did I ever claim that I am nor will I ever have any objection even if you claimed that I am not.

chya chya chya chya....nepali haru jaile ni jhagada matra garchannn vaney k garney hola......kati soor chalya hai jhagada garna laye....dhatttttttttttt
sajha ma nihu matra chahincha tespachi...k chaiyo ra!!!! ::DD