My friend Nepaliguy1982

 Well, may be not interfaith discussion I do not follow any religion,

I have studied in personal capacity and I find that there is no evidence of God. But I am open to all possibilities, if there comes evidence beyond reasonable doubt about the existence of god I won’t hesitate to follow the religion, it is as simple as that.

On the contrary science seems more logical and progressive. So our discussion may not be inter faith discussion.

Any way

Regarding the existence of god

Islam says it is the beginning….. that is it my friend, Islam (and devoted followers of other religion) can not go beyond what their religion says, on the other hand  those who are not enslaved by their belief can think beyond. If someone goes beyond what his religion says it may be considered infidelity and may be punishable, he may go to hell after death. This Fear caps the forward thinking. Our brain is capable of thinking beyond religion, Present society also allows it, and it is not against law BUT the FEAR caps it.

Whereas in science it is ok to question, till date scientist say that time began with BB. Lots of people already asked (including scientist) what was before BB, I also ask same question).

And asking such question is not crime, it is not punishable and you won’t go to hell questioning BB theory, such is the freedom here. And, this freedom does not harm anyone. Why live in unnecessary fear?

In North Korea you are not allowed to question the leadership, if you question you know what happens. If you study history you will find what happened to ppl who questioned leadership in early stage of communism in China, Cuba, then Soviet Union, Cambodia and many other dictatorships. But you can always question Barak Obama, you won’t be punished. This freedom lures ppl to US. Where ppl can think and try things beyond contemporary norms.

Your belief is stopping you to understand when I asked if most powerful, shapeless god can exists out of nothing then why BB can’t happen out of nothing.

This same logic applies to your second answer. Your belief says “god is the beginning” and there ends your brain power on that subject. You are not allowed to look for other possibilities.

Whereas in science, some one proposed the existence of God particle (Higgs Boson particle) in 60s) Scientist started to look for it and after almost 50 yrs and spending Billions of Dollars they found it.

Trust me, if there is god it will be scientists who will find it in years to come

Now, for your third answer

Your hint is god created BB; therefore BB can’t be before god.

 Kind of like when a dog chasing its own tail. 

The problem of your reasoning and other devoted religious ppl in that matter is of circular reasoning. You think conclusion (god) is true therefore reasoning must be true. I am doubting the conclusion (god, religions, including Islam) itself therefore logic leading to religion and god is automatically doubtful. That means they are not beyond reasonable doubt

If you can produce physical proof of conclusion (god) circular reasoning is good. Till date science says BB is the beginning but there are already ppl proposing what was before BB (not the god though) and this process will stop only when there is physical proof of conclusion or proofs beyond reasonable doubt. Then only ppl will stop asking question “What was before that”.  How long will it take? No one knows and I don’t care.

So saying “BB is the beginning” so “what could there be before beginning”?  is not reason or logic. Ppl will question BB until there is physical proof that there was nothing before BB or if there are proofs beyond reasonable doubt that there was nothing pp, will question BB and it is Ok to question and scientist have already proposed different opinions what was before BB.

Therefore my friend circular reasoning works only when there is physical proof or proof beyond reasonable doubt. There are lots of doubts about the existence of god; there is no physical proof that is why in such case circular reasoning does not work.

If you know MS excel, It is like asking the formula to include the answer cell also in calculation. In such case answer can never be computed.

Have you ever asked yourself where the universe came from? Why anything at all exists instead of just nothing?

My friend, have you ever asked yourself where god comes from? Why god at all exists instead of just nothingness? (Sorry, you are not allowed to ask such question because someone almost 1400 yrs, or 2000 yrs or 3000 yrs ago said it exists by itself).

My friend, in science we ask such questions that is how BB theory was developed and evidence were collected and unlike religious ppl, scientists question BB too and it is not considered taboo.

You choose the idea “impossible infinite universe” Scientists also question this and there is already new idea. The Idea of multiverse or many bubble universes. It dies in one place but another bubble universe start in another place.

It’s like flu virus. Till date scientist have not found permanent vaccination to it.  If you have flue in 7 days (even if you take medicine) you will be free from virus but virus appears in another person. And it changes with time so the flu shot does not work in new strain viruses. That is why every year they have to collect all the strain and make vaccine. Many RNA viruses can change into different antigenic shift within days. So they are different than their ancestors. That’s why it is difficult to make vaccines. There are other factors involved too.

So one event dies another event appears, for general audience it seems continuation of the past events but when you go deep you will find totally new beginning.

Answers are there because there are questions, if there is no question there will be no answer. So if you prohibit to ask question then all different possibilities will die before they are conceived.

That is what religious leaders are doing, not allowing to question because a) that new answer might  take away the power they are enjoying (and you know how some ppl feel when they are not in power) b) new finding may render them idiot (and you know no one want to be idiot). So that is why religion prohibits ppl from asking question and giving choices. They are just “Either with me or against me type”

So , one of the concept is: bubble universe dies in one part, all the events associated with it dies there but at the same time another bubble universe appears somewhere else. Scientists have developed the concept of Multiverse.

Thanks god (wink, wink) unlike religion we are allowed to question scientific findings otherwise science would have stopped progressing long ago.

The word "beginning" means "the point in time or space at which something starts". If we say God is the beginning than there is nothing before Him

Again, circular reasoning here.  “Nothing before him” is true only when existence of conclusion (god) is true. For the ppl who are questioning your conclusion (god) the answer “nothing before him” is not valid.

Your answer will be valid only if a) there is a physical proof of existence of god or b) there are proves beyond reasonable doubt

Since there is no physical evidence (you told god is shapeless, there is no image, we cannot see) of God and b) the evidence which are presented in favor of presence of god is not beyond reasonable doubt.

But surely that doesn’t make sense. Out of nothing, nothing comes.

Science says there was not this universe before BB, BB is the beginning of this Universe. There are many ideas floating among scientific community regarding what was before BB. Timeline for this universe as we understand began with BB.

My friend, BB theory is not about creation of the Universe it is about the evolution of universe from singularity.

Like we human are evolved from unicellular organism (not created from unicellular organism) , This universe of ours is evolved from singularity.

And, yes off course you are allowed to ask what was before Singularity? It is not forbidden to ask such question in science.

Is Big Bang theory the only model consistent with evolution of universe? No, it's just the most popular one.

BB theory suggests that there was no time and space there was only singularity. Time and space existed inside the singularity and singularity started to expand (this expansion of singularity is called BB in popular term.). It was not the fireball like explosion but it was like expansion of balloon when you force air into it. This expansion is still continuing, that’s why scientist say universe is still evolving.

What is singularity (with reference to BB)?

Singularity is a stage where finite matter is subjected to intense gravitational pressure; the pressure is so high that it squeezed finite matter into infinite density. Once the singularity started to expand the pressure was released and matters started to appear finite again. There are other concepts too but this is the most plausible one.

So the cause of evolution of universe is the BB or expansion of singularity.

God already justified His messenger and defended Him. 

Circular reasoning again

There were 124,000 prophets from God. 

Koran mentioned 29, Hadith says 124, 000 , In this case I might be wrong, I take back my remark on it

That was the difference in his message. It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities.

But Hindus knew about this almost 2000 yrs before. Also if Allah in Islam and God in Christianity is the same god then in the same area it was made known to ppl almost 500 yrs before.

In 200 yrs time the message from Rigved may have reached Middle East. Ppl were trading travelling even at that time. Saying one god as new message sounds more like reinventing the wheel.

No need to reinvent the wheel it is already there

 And finally, may be

Mohammad might have leadership skill. By knowing his leadership skill Gabriel ( a person who knew about Rigved and Bible well, might have wanted to tell Mohammad “look ppl here are worshiping nonsense, actual is this, one god. Choose any of gods which ppl are worshiping now and get rid of rest”.

Since the God Allah already existed as a senior god in pre Islamic religion. Mohammad chooses Allah and got rid of all junior gods.

Off course he could not ask ppl you worship Allah only because I am saying so, ppl won’t obey so he might have pretended to be messenger to influence this idea. Even then ppl in Mecca resisted him.