Posted by: Captain Haddock June 6, 2008
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Maverick repeatedly asked Loote "How did he know if it was dumb war then"
First off, I think you are asking the wrong person. Loote, as charismatic and eloquent as he might be, is not Barack Obama and did not make those comments. Neither am I nor any of the others who have spoken up to support him. The way you have chosen to frame that question, and I feel you have done so deliberately, it's a rhetorical question or sorts that only Obama can answer.
However, there is a similar question that can be answered and that is: was the Iraq war a "dumb" war or the wrong war to fight? The answer is positively YES. It has clearly been established that Bush lied/misled about the war because he selectively chose facts to suit his arguments for going to war. This has been established through the memoirs of Dick Clark, McCullen, many others who have spoken up since and even this piece in the NYT. I would recommend you read it.
I thought the Iraq war debate was over but if you want to re-live it, even back then the weapons inspectors (both US and foreign) said there were no WMDs, the IAEA said there were no WMDs but Bush chose to ignore their advice and go to war claiming to rely on the CIAs assement. Talk about judgment there. It has now been established that the administration forced the hand of the CIA to come up with intelligence, however flimsy, to back up their case. It was Bush saying I have decided to go to war with Iraq, now help me make the public case for it.
I believe both Obama and Hillary knew the case for war was bogus - even though she wont admit it. As did most governments outside the US and many within the US. Those who were not NeoCons or ones to be intimidated by them, did not fall for it. She supported the war for political reasons, which is fine, as politicians do things for all kinds of reasons, but that legitimately brings into question her judgment and character along with Bush's. If Bush showed poor judgment in not vetting out the intelligence, then why can't the same thing be said of those who supported him almost every step of the way (McCain) or large part of the way (Hillary)?
Obama may not have McCain's resume (and I think he has as good a resume as Hillary) when it comes to foreign policy but on this one issue, whether it was made easier by the fact that he was not in the Senate, or whatever else it was, he can legitimately claim he had better judgment than Bush, McCain or Hillary. Heck, many people on Sajha opposing the war back then had better judgment it seems. Alas, such people were not in government. The Democratic primary voters agreed the war was a bad idea. Now it's for the rest to decide who has the best judgment to lead. We wont know the answer till November.
First off, I think you are asking the wrong person. Loote, as charismatic and eloquent as he might be, is not Barack Obama and did not make those comments. Neither am I nor any of the others who have spoken up to support him. The way you have chosen to frame that question, and I feel you have done so deliberately, it's a rhetorical question or sorts that only Obama can answer.
However, there is a similar question that can be answered and that is: was the Iraq war a "dumb" war or the wrong war to fight? The answer is positively YES. It has clearly been established that Bush lied/misled about the war because he selectively chose facts to suit his arguments for going to war. This has been established through the memoirs of Dick Clark, McCullen, many others who have spoken up since and even this piece in the NYT. I would recommend you read it.
I thought the Iraq war debate was over but if you want to re-live it, even back then the weapons inspectors (both US and foreign) said there were no WMDs, the IAEA said there were no WMDs but Bush chose to ignore their advice and go to war claiming to rely on the CIAs assement. Talk about judgment there. It has now been established that the administration forced the hand of the CIA to come up with intelligence, however flimsy, to back up their case. It was Bush saying I have decided to go to war with Iraq, now help me make the public case for it.
I believe both Obama and Hillary knew the case for war was bogus - even though she wont admit it. As did most governments outside the US and many within the US. Those who were not NeoCons or ones to be intimidated by them, did not fall for it. She supported the war for political reasons, which is fine, as politicians do things for all kinds of reasons, but that legitimately brings into question her judgment and character along with Bush's. If Bush showed poor judgment in not vetting out the intelligence, then why can't the same thing be said of those who supported him almost every step of the way (McCain) or large part of the way (Hillary)?
Obama may not have McCain's resume (and I think he has as good a resume as Hillary) when it comes to foreign policy but on this one issue, whether it was made easier by the fact that he was not in the Senate, or whatever else it was, he can legitimately claim he had better judgment than Bush, McCain or Hillary. Heck, many people on Sajha opposing the war back then had better judgment it seems. Alas, such people were not in government. The Democratic primary voters agreed the war was a bad idea. Now it's for the rest to decide who has the best judgment to lead. We wont know the answer till November.
Last edited: 06-Jun-08 12:26 PM