yeah, "person" would be a more appropriate term for madan bhandari and for pushpa"kamal" dahal as well although i meant to refer to the "school of thought" they believe(d) in rather than the individual ideas they possess(ed). well, the thread asked for orator --one who can skillfully put forth his/her ideas. you don't necessarily have to agree with them, hoina ra? Minendra Rijal is another false intellectual who pretends to know everything but quite really doesn't. just like you claim that, i say the opposite and i am okay with your view about him. moreover, i don't want to discuss on individuals coz there could be different sides of the stories and you or i may not be aware of all. my take was based on few personal meetings. i was impressed by what i saw. may be my observation was not complete or so could be yours. i guess this forum can still exist without commenting on individuals. i believe more on the system/group or the thought process involved in general, rather than individuals. :-) LooTe