first of all, stop being apologetic for nothing..... second of all, thanks for being on the list...... third of all, here is my conclusion: these kinds of argumetns are very iffy. its hard to draw a line between right and wrong. sometimes knowledge is constructed, at other times, it is inherent and true. for example, the knoweldge to suck mother's breast is not instilled upon an infant. it is natural, that is defintely reality. but waht about knowledge of osama bin laden about allah's decree?? is that his perception or is that his knowledge????? definetely his perception, but sad thing, he acts upon it beleiving there wil lbe 72 vigins waiting for him in heaven. if that is perception, then what is knowledgee?? wehre do we leave this perception behind and pick up knowledge? wehre do we draw the line? see its soo hard to come up with a concrete conclusions and even if we did, there would be numerousss loopholes. but its awlyas fun to argue, opens up the mind, does not it? funny i still have not reached my limit. this is proly the last one. u said you would not argue any more a while a go, and here u r.....still arguing with moi and being apologetic on top of that..i must be on fire. hahhaah. well i will catch u at a later post hai ta. and don't be sorryy....