aryashakti, I read the website but do not find neccesssary details. If you know of histories of this please post.


thugged_out. Very good. But it is not complete. Name of Dadal also from BaNGLADESH. maybe Purbeei Brahmin of origin Dadal Dhura at Nepal. Please confirm.

It is true that such information is rare on the internet. However, there are excellent sites concerning Brahmins of India & Bangladesh. I am a Kanyakubj Brahmin of Jajhoti gan-jati therefore I can only give details specific to the Terai.

The names Kadel, Koirala, Dhakal Khanal etc are of Pahar origin. Maybe thugged_out can help.

CHAKLAGDA KURAHARU!!!
Ajkal Brahmin jati haru ek arkana chutiyaera basay ka chan Khas Brahmin haru Kanyakubj Brahmin ka hun ki Gandhara (Afghan) Brahhmin ka hun?


thugged_out/aryashakti
Malai Dhakal jati ko gotra ra jati bhatae dinus na..

Why received non reply?? I have waited one month. But nothing send to my e-mail address. Also is no posting.
I like to know names of Nepal Brahmin & jati groups.
Also History.

Mero dwi jana sathi haru hunuhuncha Dahal ra Kadel. Tin haru ko jat (ra gan- jat) kay ho?
Ma janna chahanchu:
Nepal ko Brahmin haru kaha bata aiya ko ho ?
Purbiya Brahmin haru ko nam kay ho?
Dhanyavad.

The Brahmins of the modern Nepal region all originate from India except for the so-called Newar brahmins (who really are Brahmins only in name). The Brahmins migrated to the region in different waves and at different times. The first Brahmin settlers migrated from the kingdom of Kanyakubj to the Nepal area in the eigth century. They settled in villages after which they were named
Baral (village : Baral)
Khanal (village : Khan)

Some Brahmins intermarried with lower castes whilst others retained their racial purity. The pure-blooded Brahmins adopted the jati of Upadhyaya to differentate from the outcaste mixed race variety (today called Jaisi Brahmins).

Certain Upadhyaya Brahmins migrated east to the area of Biratnagar. They bacame known as Purbia (gan jati) Brahminsi.

In the fourteenth century Brahmins departed from the kingdom of Kumaon to settle central Himalay. They became known as Kumai Brahmins.

During the Mughal rule the fanatic Muslims tried to impose Darul Islam over Hindustan. This prompted a Brahmin migration of Saraswat (from Punjab), Deshasth (of Maratha),
Babhan (Bhumihar Brahmins) and Kanyakubja Jejakabhuktia/Jajhoti Brahmins (from Utter Pradesh/Madhya Pradesh); seeking asylums in the tolerant Hindu northern states.

After removing the tyrannous rule of savage Muslims, Shivaji conquered southern nepal which led to an influx of Chitpavan and Deshastha Brahmins.

When the Maha Raj Prithvinarayan Shah gained Mithila (year 1769) the Mathil Brahmins were made Nepals citizens.

Very good good shongbad.
But I like information of my own ancesterrs.
We Nepali,
BUTR em Bangladesh. Is Brahmin of Kanyakubj to Nepal or others.
What is origin of:
Upadhya
Purbi
Is from Kanyakubj (Utaer Persfesh) or from Punjob (Sarsawat)

Well aryashakti u may think u r superior becoz u r Brahmin but u didnt have to put down newars for that purpose. That just goes to show how inferior your thoughts r.

There is a thread about racism. This thread smells rat.

Comon fellows what u want??? WE ARE GOING THROUGH CIVIL WAR

NOW YOU WANT A COMMUNIAL VIOLENCE. HATE KEEP FIGHTING.

THINK FKN THINK

Aryasakti,
Cut the crap... those newar brahmins are there to performs their cultural tasks.. what do you mean by so called???
Don;t just bark... Let us not degrade any race or caste...every caste and religion has its flaws ... name a cast thats oh so pure... on the second thought.. don't... its useless.... just keep your useless crap where it belongs.. with urself.... damn..
In disgust,
IndisGuise:s

Posted on 10-27-04 12:48 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Aryashakti wrote:
The Brahmins of the modern Nepal region all originate from India except for the so-called Newar brahmins (who really are Brahmins only in name).

Can u please elaborate the SO -CALLED part of the above sentence. If u think its a typo or misunderstanding I guess u should better apologise.

As far as I know in Newari traditions brahmins is a post given to the pujaris who can perform relgious activities...so there is no question of comparing Newar Brahmins over here its totally senseless...

LEts limit us to the theme of the thread than bashing others in a cold minded motivated way .

Reply to comment made by Aryashakti:

Hey now, stop bashing Aryashakti. He's making a point thats all. I totally agree with what he said, lets face it, there is no such thing as "Newar Brahmin". Brahmins are of indian origin. Newars are not of Indian origin, they are of mongloid origin. There are 49 established gotras in hinduism from the 4 castes, Brahmins are the direct descendants of seven or eight sages who are believed to be the mind-born sons of Brahma. They are Gautama, Bharadvaja, Vishvamitra, Jamadagni, Vasishtha, Kashyapa and Atri. To this list, Agastya is also sometimes added. These eight sages are called gotrakarins from whom all the 49 gotras (especially of the Brahmins) have evolved. SO TELL ME where does a Newar Brahmin fit?? Hindu Newars call themselves brahmins because they want to fit into the promenant hindu Indo-Aryan Nepalese. I beleive since there are Newar Preists, the word brahmin is used just to implicate the "preistly caste". In that case it can be used, but there is no way a Newar can really be a Hindu Brahmin. If a certain newar claims himself as a Hindu Brahmin, then i'd ask WHAT IS YOUR GOTRA?

Well, Newari brahmins supposedly came from India also. For example, Joshi(the only Newari brahmin surname I know) can be either your run-of-the-mill brahmin or Newari brahmin. Of course, the difference is that the Joshi Newars came to Nepal earlier. I doub that they have kept their gotra system.
If somebody else could verify.
As for the surname Dadal, I have never heard it before. We got Dahal and Dhakal, but I've never heard of Dadal.

How can you say Newars are from India? Newari is a Sino-Tibetan language and its root is from there. And as for the name joshi, original joshis are brahmins, mostly from maharastra region in India. Any one can take a last name, but it doesnt mean their roots are from there. For instance, Joshi is a hindu brahman name from the root word in sanskrit joytsi, an astraloger. A newar could easily take up that last name as a family name. Also another example, slaves from africa were taken to america and were given typical white names like, smith, brown, windsor, does that mean those specific african american originated from England? Also another point, newars are either hindus or buddhist. If they are hindus, they are obviously going to take up a hindu name.

not being racist or anything, just proving a point here. Here's another easy way of putting this. Nepalese people who have round eyes and look more liek from the indian subcontinent, are of indian origin, where as nepalese who have chinese features, like small eyes and flat noses are of mongloid decent.

Peace

First of all, everybody knows the origin of black Americans. As for Newars, their origin is shrouded in mystery. To use your logic, just because black Americans speak English as their native tongue, we cannot jump to conclusions and say that they're Anglo-Saxons. So, I would not rely solely on language to conclude that Newars are of Tibetan origin. Newars are just a group of people that comprise both the Tibetan and Indian peoples. Newari is not purely Sino-Tibetan; in fact it is mixed with Indian dialects. Those Hindu Newars were not converted to Hinduism. They were Hindus for generations.
How exactly are you going to explain why some Newars look no different from brahmins and chettris? Newar Brahmins settled in Nepal earlier. Those that came later on did not accept them as brahmin.

Here's a excerpt from historic source: NEWARS - The Newars are of Mongolian origin and are the dominant ethnic group of the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding central areas of Nepal. Despite their geographical origins, the majority are now Shaivite Hindus following received Hindu customs, although communities of Newari Buddhists do remain. They represent perhaps the greatest synchronism of the Tibetan and Indian traditions of any Nepal's ethnic groups and also incorporate aspects of aninism.

TADA

There is no mystery of where Newars came from. Newars are of mongloid decent. If you still think that newars are from India, then please tell me where in India do they have people that look chinese? Ofcourse besides darjeeling and sikkim and other himalayan areas. (Which was later annexed to british India) The origin of Hindus are from the Indus Valley, saraswat valley and present day pakistan, and later due to drout of saraswati river, they shifted to the east and south and to uttar pardesh. And as for the explanation of your comment: "How exactly are you going to explain why some Newars look no different from brahmins and chettris? Newar Brahmins settled in Nepal earlier. Those that came later on did not accept them as brahmin."
It's simple, its called FUSION. Obviously years back a newari might have married a brahmin or an indian looking chetri. But it is obvious that Newars are from mongloid decent, and it can be seen in their appearance and is in their gene. Newari is of mostly sino-tibeatian origin. That means they are from mongloid decent (SUPRISE) and obcourse, it does have some sanskrit route, but that does not mean that they are from Indian Oirign. It means when their culture came in mix with hindu culture, they borrowed sanskrit in. This can be seen in another way. For example, buddhisim in the oreintal (china, japan, cambodia etc). It is known people of Japan speak Japanese. But when they read buddhist scripture, it is in Sanskrit. Also is translated in Japanese, but the words and its roots are sanskrit, like "aum mani padmi haum" thats sanskrit. They dont' pray in japanese they pray in sanskrit. Same with Islam. Indonesians, who are predominatly muslims, when it comes to reading the qu'ran, they read it in Arabic. And all indonesians are of mongloid decent not semetic decent. AND PLEASE DONT TELL ME THAT INDONESIANS CAME FROM ARABIA, THAT THEY ONCE HOPPED ON A BOAT AND CAME TO THE ISLAND. Because Hindus also came to Indonesia to spread their culture to the mongloid nomads. Then came the islamic missionaries that convereted them into Islam.So anyways, so you can see why newari has sanskrit roots, because obvioulsy nepal is situated in an area where on the north is mongloid race, and south is the so called "Aryan" race. I am not denying that Newars are one of the original people of the area now called Nepal. Before people from the Indian origin migrated, there were only nomads of mongloid decent. ANOTHER FACT. if you even look at the archetecture in the kathmandu valley, the temples and darbars-+
are of OREINTAL design, like the ones found in china, japan and korea. And when you look at indian archetecture, it is nothing close to that of the Newars. SO PLEASE, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR EXPLANATION. Because it is true in all aspects and human migration that if a certain group of people migrate from one place to another, they take their customs along including the way they design their settelement along with them. SO if the Newars did migrate from India and setteled in Nepal, how come we dont' see any of their 'previous" indian customs like ARCHETECTURE. There is no archetetcture design like the one in the Kathmandu valley that you see in India. SO this also proves that Newaris are of Mongloid decent. They migrated from the north bringing in their mongloid language and Archeteture etc. THat is why the Kathmandu valley archetecture looks similar to the ones you see in China and Japan and the far east. THE END. I REST MY CASE. and please don't try to bring in any other excuses.

Sources please. If you wanna cite "historic sources", please tell me where you got your tripe from. As I said, there are some Newars who came from India.

The origins of the Newars are shrouded in mystery. Levi has proposed that the Newars may have migrated to the Valley from the region north of the Himalaya .[6] F?rer-Haimendorf writes: ?there is every reason to believe that the bulk of the Newar people has been settled in the Nepal Valley since prehistoric times.?(1956:15) According to K.P.Malla ?[t]he aboriginal people of the Valley were possibly Austroasiatics who were later assimilated by the Mongoloid Kirats.?(1979:132) Among scholars there seems to be consensus that the Newars can be traced back to the ancient Kiratas,[7] who inhabited the valley two millennia ago. Not much is known about the Kiratas.[8] The Kiratas fought wars with the Indo-Aryan invaders and are mentioned in the Mahabharata. The Kiranti tribes, the Rai and the Limbu of East Nepal, are thought to be descendants of the Kiratas.[9] The Kiratas were followed by the Licchavis who founded a dynasty and left the earliest sources[10] thus far discovered, inscriptions from the fifth century A.D.[11] There is also agreement that the Newars and the valley have been repeatedly invaded by other people from the surrounding hill country and the Gangetic plains. The invaders were attracted to the valley by its rich alluvial soils, its urban riches, and the chances for spoils.[12] Some of the invaders founded new dynasties; most prominent of these were the Malla dynasties,[13] which are thought to have come in the l2th century from Tirhut in Bihar.These early immigrants tended to become newarized: they assumed cultural patterns from the Newars and adopted their language, making it their own. After some generations such immigrants or invaders would be more or less indistinguishable from the original inhabitants. However, some (e.g., the Jha caste) also retained many social and cultural traits of their own, a process which has been facilitated by the caste system.[14] This is certainly an important part of the explanation for the great variety among castes and localities that one encounters in Newari culture.
http://w1.185.telia.com/~u18515267/CHAPTERII.htm

Also, please read this:
"During the second half of the 17th century, most probably under the rule of King Srinivasa Malla (1661-1684) one branch of the Rajopadhya, the Newar Brahmans to the court, established this agache or esoteric shrine house. This esoteric shrine building stands adjacent to 13th century Ratnesvara resthouse. Part of the agache structure was demolished in 1996. In: The Sulima Strut. East meets West in the Restoration of a Nepalese Pagoda . Eds.: Niels Gutschow, Erich Theophile. Forthcoming, 2001 Weatherhill Publishers, p. 107"



Most Indians don't consider Nepali bahuns to be pure either. Many of those bihari brahmins look no different from australoids. So please stop your yammering.

Ok here it is:

a]lthough Newari is a Tibeto-Burman language by stock, its literary dialects are deeply influenced by the Indo-Aryan [sic] dialects, models, and traditions. Just as Newar social and cultural systems are a product of a fusion of two streams, similarly classical Newari literature is a most tangible evidence of the symbiosis between a Tibeto-Burman language and the Indo-Aryan literate culture.(Malla l982:4) ITS FUSION, BUT THE ORIGIN OF NEWARIS ARE KIRATIS:
"The earliest recorded history of Nepal goes back over 2,800 years when a tribe of Mongolian people?the Kiratis?arrived in the Himalayan territory, across the Tibetan plateau."

Of the Mongoloid origin, the Newars have probably been settled in Kathmandu Valley for over 2000 years. They have absorbed many Indian characteristics, including Hinduism. Numbering about 12,00,000 are concentrated in the Valley and fewer are scattered countrywide. Their language is Newari which although it is commonly placed in the Tibeto-Burmese family, was influenced also by Indo European languages.
-http://www.catreks.com.np/kingdom.htm


HERES ANOTHER SOURCE

1. Introduction :
Newars are the indigenous people of Nepal. Newars belong to the Kirati family of Mongolian stock. In course of time, the people of other clan, caste, community merged into the Newar stock. The ancient and original religion of Newars is Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhism. This religion was introduced in the Nepal Valley (the Kathmandu Valley in ancient times) by Bodhisattva Mahamanjushri at the time when the valley, then a lake, was made inhabited by draining out the water of the lake. Shantikaracharya constructed Swayambhu Jyotirupa with a view to perpetuating this religion for a long time in an organised manner. He also constructed Guhya Agamchhen (tantric altars) at Panchapur and Shantipur following a tantric ritual to establish the area as the centre of Vajrayana.
-- Madansen Vajracharya
http://www.lrcnepal.org/papers/cbhnm-ppr-12.htm


Oh and I wanted to talk about the fact where newars like you say that are from India. Well If I asked you which part of India, you would be dumbstruck and would go into google and try to find out. There are some newars say that they are from South India, and are related to the Nayars. Well the NAIRS are KERALITES, and heres an excerpt of where the NAYARS came from:

Obviously, like all Keralite tribes, the Nairs came from outside. There is a great deal of truth in the theory that they came from the Nepal Valley, adjacent to Tibet. Some consider them to be early descendants of the Newars of Nepal. The Kathakali which is a Nair art-form is closely related to Tibetan dances; Nair polyandry is very similar to Tibetan marriage customs; in the mode of inheritance the Newars are like the Nairs; like the Newars, the Nairs are distinguished by their lighter coloring, Mongolian features, and smooth hair. The most remarkable thing about the Nairs is their style of pagoda-like temple architecture and house construction which are almost identical with the Newar style of temples and houses found all along the Kulu and Nepal Valleys. Serpent worship is another common custom between the Newars and Nairs. As mentioned earlier, the settlers of Kerala came from the northwestern parts of India and the Nepal Valley. My theory is that groups of Newars who were partially Aryanized and would be later Dravidianized joined the Munda exodus and finally settled down in Kerala after a long period of sojourn in the eastern plains of Tamil Nadu. It is the Newar-Nair builders who have given Kerala both the pagoda-type architectural style of the Hindu temples and the angular roof and dormer of Kerala houses.
The Kerala Story:
by Dr. Zacharias Thundy, Northern Michigan University


And about your comment about Indians who don't consider nepali bahuns pure. Well I'm a nepali brahmin who knows my ancestry inside out and I can tell you where exactly my ancestors came, which village they were settled and what exact gotra I'm from. And ofcourse, I'm not the so called "nepali brahmin" that has mongloid features. And I'm married to a Indian Brahmin that has the same Kul Devta, same gotra and same origin as mine. Don't speculate about what Indian Brahmins think of Nepali Brahmins, because you aren't one to even know. What you think of brahmins in nepal are of mongloid decent. And if an indian brahmin don't consider nepali brahmins pure, because that specific nepali brahmin looks chinkie, obviously that they aren't pure, and I wouldn't even. Because "supposedly" you should be knowing since you claim ur self to be a newari brahmin, that when a brahmin marries someone that is not from his caste, he is no longer a brahmin, that he falls to his/her spouse's caste.
And you mentioning about bihari brahmins who look no different from australoids. Australoids a.k.a aborigenes are of african decent. Most biharis came from bengal. Also do to the climate in the terai reason they are dark. But color of skin and physical features are big different. Biharis, even dark have the so called indo aryan feature, long nose, big eyes long bushy brows, where as newaris have mongloid feature, flat face, small eyes, flat nose. Even Keralits don't look mongloid.

Ok here it is:

a]lthough Newari is a Tibeto-Burman language by stock, its literary dialects are deeply influenced by the Indo-Aryan [sic] dialects, models, and traditions. Just as Newar social and cultural systems are a product of a fusion of two streams, similarly classical Newari literature is a most tangible evidence of the symbiosis between a Tibeto-Burman language and the Indo-Aryan literate culture.(Malla l982:4) ITS FUSION, BUT THE ORIGIN OF NEWARIS ARE KIRATIS:
"The earliest recorded history of Nepal goes back over 2,800 years when a tribe of Mongolian people?the Kiratis?arrived in the Himalayan territory, across the Tibetan plateau."

Of the Mongoloid origin, the Newars have probably been settled in Kathmandu Valley for over 2000 years. They have absorbed many Indian characteristics, including Hinduism. Numbering about 12,00,000 are concentrated in the Valley and fewer are scattered countrywide. Their language is Newari which although it is commonly placed in the Tibeto-Burmese family, was influenced also by Indo European languages.
-http://www.catreks.com.np/kingdom.htm


HERES ANOTHER SOURCE

1. Introduction :
Newars are the indigenous people of Nepal. Newars belong to the Kirati family of Mongolian stock. In course of time, the people of other clan, caste, community merged into the Newar stock. The ancient and original religion of Newars is Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhism. This religion was introduced in the Nepal Valley (the Kathmandu Valley in ancient times) by Bodhisattva Mahamanjushri at the time when the valley, then a lake, was made inhabited by draining out the water of the lake. Shantikaracharya constructed Swayambhu Jyotirupa with a view to perpetuating this religion for a long time in an organised manner. He also constructed Guhya Agamchhen (tantric altars) at Panchapur and Shantipur following a tantric ritual to establish the area as the centre of Vajrayana.
-- Madansen Vajracharya
http://www.lrcnepal.org/papers/cbhnm-ppr-12.htm


Oh and I wanted to talk about the fact where newars like you say that are from India. Well If I asked you which part of India, you would be dumbstruck and would go into google and try to find out. There are some newars say that they are from South India, and are related to the Nayars. Well the NAIRS are KERALITES, and heres an excerpt of where the NAYARS came from:

Obviously, like all Keralite tribes, the Nairs came from outside. There is a great deal of truth in the theory that they came from the Nepal Valley, adjacent to Tibet. Some consider them to be early descendants of the Newars of Nepal. The Kathakali which is a Nair art-form is closely related to Tibetan dances; Nair polyandry is very similar to Tibetan marriage customs; in the mode of inheritance the Newars are like the Nairs; like the Newars, the Nairs are distinguished by their lighter coloring, Mongolian features, and smooth hair. The most remarkable thing about the Nairs is their style of pagoda-like temple architecture and house construction which are almost identical with the Newar style of temples and houses found all along the Kulu and Nepal Valleys. Serpent worship is another common custom between the Newars and Nairs. As mentioned earlier, the settlers of Kerala came from the northwestern parts of India and the Nepal Valley. My theory is that groups of Newars who were partially Aryanized and would be later Dravidianized joined the Munda exodus and finally settled down in Kerala after a long period of sojourn in the eastern plains of Tamil Nadu. It is the Newar-Nair builders who have given Kerala both the pagoda-type architectural style of the Hindu temples and the angular roof and dormer of Kerala houses.
The Kerala Story:
by Dr. Zacharias Thundy, Northern Michigan University


And about your comment about Indians who don't consider nepali bahuns pure. Well I'm a nepali brahmin who knows my ancestry inside out and I can tell you where exactly my ancestors came, which village they were settled and what exact gotra I'm from. And ofcourse, I'm not the so called "nepali brahmin" that has mongloid features. And I'm married to a Indian Brahmin that has the same Kul Devta, same gotra and same origin as mine. Don't speculate about what Indian Brahmins think of Nepali Brahmins, because you aren't one to even know. What you think of brahmins in nepal are of mongloid decent. And if an indian brahmin don't consider nepali brahmins pure, because that specific nepali brahmin looks chinkie, obviously that they aren't pure, and I wouldn't even. Because "supposedly" you should be knowing since you claim ur self to be a newari brahmin, that when a brahmin marries someone that is not from his caste, he is no longer a brahmin, that he falls to his/her spouse's caste.
And you mentioning about bihari brahmins who look no different from australoids. Australoids a.k.a aborigenes are of african decent. Most biharis came from bengal. Also do to the climate in the terai reason they are dark. But color of skin and physical features are big different. Biharis, even dark have the so called indo aryan feature, long nose, big eyes long bushy brows, where as newaris have mongloid feature, flat face, small eyes, flat nose. Even Keralits don't look mongloid.

Ok what about the magar priest of Mankamana. AAlam devi than and there are some devi sthans where magar are still priest. What is that? cam u enlighten us about it?