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You wrote
Sikkim did at one point try to culturally dominate/influence Limbuwan. But as you see, it didn't happen. Limbus remained true to their culture and did not convert to buddhism.
But website http://www.pahimpariwar.com/limbushistory.htm says
Before the introduction of Sirijonga script among Limbu Kiratas, Rong script was popular in East Nepal specially in early Maurong state. Sirijonga script had almost disappeared for 800 years and it was brought into practice again by Te-Ongsi Sirijonga Thebe (1704 - 1741 A.D.) of Tellok Sinam who fled to Sikkim where he was put to death by the Lamas of Sikkim in charge of educating people in Limbu language and script in 1741. However, historical evidence show that Te-Ongsi Sirijonga Thebe studied under Sikkimese Lamas and Brahamans in India.
If this site is to be believed Sikkimeli lamas killed the person who studied under them just because he was educating Limbus in their language and script. Sikkimeli history says there was Limbu revolt few times which was put down by force. (And you can imagine punishment Limbus might have handed over by Sikkimeli authority at that time). But you bravely claim otherwise.
You must be a crazy person
Now read below, even at around 1600 ad, History of Sikkim does not speak about its border with Limbuwana. This was not written by baaun. Or you think entire world is against Limbuwana?
AD 1600’s
Events of the persecution of the Nyingmapa sect in Tibet lead to their fleeing the country and taking refuge in places like Sikkim and Bhutan. In 1642 Phuntsog Namgyal, the grandson of Khye Bumsa is consecrated as the first Chogyal in Yuksam by Rimpoche Lhatsun Chempo, the founder of the Nyingmapa order in Sikkim. Sikkim’s territory then included the Chumbi Valley in the north, up to Ha Dzong in Bhutan, as far as the Arun River in Nepal, and much of the Jalpaiguri District of West Bengal.
http://questhimalaya.com/moreabout/index.htm
Please Read below
Phuntsog Namgyal was succeeded by his son, Tensung Namgyal in 1670. The reign of the chogyal was peaceful and saw the capital being shifted from Yuksom to Rabdentse. Chakdor Namgyal, the king's second wife's son, took over the throne from him in 1700. This outraged his elder half-sister Pendiongmu, who ousted him with the help of the Bhutanese. From 1700 to 1706, when Chakdor Namgyal, the third chogyal, ruled the Kingdom of Sikkim, most parts of Sikkim were under the invasion of Deb Naku Zidar, the king ofBhutan. Chakdor Namgyal went in exile into Tibet. The Tibetan people expelled the Bhutanese army, and called Chakdor Namgyal back to Sikkim.[1] Chakdor's son Gyurmed Namgyal succeeded him in 1717. Gyurmed's reign saw many skirmishes between the Nepalese and Sikkimese. Phuntsog Namgyal II, the illegitimate child of Gyurmed, succeeded his father in 1733. His reign was tumultuous as he was faced with attacks by the Bhutanese and the Nepalese who managed to capture the capital Rabdentse.
Tenzing Namgyal, chogyal from 1780 to 1793, was a weak ruler, and his sovereignty saw most of Sikkim being appropriated byNepal. In 1788, the Nepali Gurkha Army invaded Sikkim, and took Limbuana and the former capital Rabdentse by storm. The king of Sikkim went into exile in Tibet for a second time. In 1788, the 8th Dalai Lama stationed him in Chumbi Valley in Rènà zong (also "Rèrì," today's Yadong County).[1][2].Tshudpud Namgyal, his son returned to Sikkim in 1793 to reclaim the throne with the help of China. Finding Rabdentse too close to the Nepalese border, he shifted the capital to Tumlong.
1. Mullard, Saul (2003). Bulletin of Tibetology (1, 2): 13–24.
2. Journal of Qinghai Nationalities Institute III: 34. 1978-04. Retrieved 2008-11-21.
I tried to cover the history of Sikkim written by westerners. They mentioned countries like Nepal, Bhutan, Tibet but not Limbuwan and its ten kings, why?
History of Bhutan
Between 1627 and 1634, a series of wars culminated in the Battle of Five Lamas, the Shabdrung emerging victorious. Military incursions from Tibet and the Mongol Empire continued through 1714. As Bhutan gained its own measure of regional power in the late 17th century, it invaded neighboring kingdoms in Sikkim, Cooch Behar, and the Duars.
In 1616, Shabdrung Ngawang Namgyal, facing arrest and following visions in which it is said that the chief guardian deities of Bhutan offered him a home, left Tibet to establish a new base in western Bhutan, founding Cheri Monastery at the head of Thimphu valley. During the Bhutanese period of theocratic rule (1616–1907), there was no regular standing army. The bow and arrow were among the principal means of arming the population during frequent upheavals and invasions.[1] During times of crisis, the government raised militias from among local lords' retinues, all commanded by one dapon ("arrow chief"),[2] a title used through modern times.[3]
1. Worden, Robert L. "British Intrusion, 1772–1907". Bhutan: A country study (Andrea Matles Savada, ed.). Library of Congress Federal Research Division (1991).
2. Rose, Leo E (1977). The Politics of Bhutan. South Asian Political Systems. Cornell University Press. p. 197. ISBN 0-8014-0909-8. Retrieved 2011-09-26.
3. Rahul, Ram (1997). Royal Bhutan: A Political History. Vikas. p. 26. ISBN 81-259-0232-5. Retrieved 2011-09-26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Bhutan
So in the history of Bhutan too, they mention Sikkim, Coach Bihar and duars (I think present day doors) but no Limbuwana and its ten kings why?
What you guys did to entire world? Why no one is mentioning ten kings and their kingdom of Limbuwana ? And, don’t say baaun played a role in it.
My friend, it is very easy to blame someone within your country but what about people outside the country? Do you have answer for this?
Come with some verifiable answer not with some hearsay stories.
Want to read more?
Karna Sena was accepted at Vijayapur a sits de Jure ruler, but the actual power was in the hands of Buddhikarna , the “Rajabahara Samartha”. However his power seemed to be confined only to Vijayapur and not over his fellow Kiratis in the Hills. A chronicle of the Sikkim rulers in the Limbu language mentions the chiefs (Hang) of Kirat thus:
Budhhikarna Rai of Morang-Vijayapur,
Jamun Rai of Chaubis thum,
Fung Rai of Pahthar,
Jung Rai of Athrai,
Athang Rai of Phedap,
Mongphang Rai of yangrup,
Shubhanta Rai of Tamar,
Rainasingh Rai of Meiwa,
Asadeva Rai of Chhathar,
Harshamukhi Rai of Chinpur and
Snuhang Rai of Arun
This also indicates that they were tax collectors on behalf of Sikkim. This history was not written by Baauns. How come a chronicle written in Limbu language and from Sikkim refers them as “chiefs” not King or Raja or kaji etc?
When Karna Sen ran away to Vijayapyr, Buddhikarna invited him to occupy the vacant throne. In this manner, the hill and Tarai territories of Chaudandi were fully annexed to Nepal within a period of 11 months.
The situation in the Limbuwan region of Vijayapur was critical at that time. Taking advantage of the dissensions between the king and his ministers, King Phunchek Namgyal of Sikkim occupied Ilam and attacked Limbuwan from the north-west of Ilam. The Limbus of these regions were therefore anxious to welcome the Gorkhali troops. Realizing this, the Gorkhali troops commanded bu Ramakrishna Kunwar crossed the Arun river from Dingla and reached Chainpur. Bobady blocked their advances. The writ of the King and his minister was confined to the areas surrounding the capital of Vijayapur, where King Karna Sen and his minister, Buddhikaran, were staying. It was the monsoon. Both the King and miniter were complacent, because they thought that the Gorkhali troops would not cross the Koshi and enter into Vijayapur during his season. However, Abhiman Simha Basnyat achieved his impossible task. Gorkhali troops, riding on elephant, crossed the turbulent Koshi and launched a surprise attack on Vijayapur (July 17, 1774). Unable to repulse this attack, king Karna Sen and Minister Buddhikarna fled to Sikkimalong with their troops. With the occupation of Vijayapur, the Limbu Subbas (chiefs) of the area from Islingwa to Changthapu in the Limbuwan region bordering Sikkim accepted Prithvi Narayan Shah’s suzerainty. Thus the entire Pallokirat region, with the exception of Ilam, was annexed without fight.
http://madhesi.wordpress.com/2007/01/14/historical-the-sen-kingdoms/
How many evidence you want my friend? Could you provide one verifiable evidence or history written by third party?
By the way what will happen if Limbu didn’t have Limbuwaan as a country and Limbu as a king? Will World war third start? Will universe turn upside down?
Is it shameful if your ancestors didn’t establish a great country?
Mr. Daaku,
You posted about 10 Rajya /Kingdom of Limbu, again from your Historians. I would like to see verifiable evidence of them being “Kingdom” not area ruled by tax collector “chiefs”
I can find those 10 kingdom posted in many Limbu related websites but what I am asking is where is a verifiable evidence. Other historians said they were tax collectors and they started to behave like ruler when the centre of those countries was week. I have posted evidence above.
Please check above posting who were the “chief” of some of the Limbu Kingdoms you mentioned.
History of Sikkim says “Tosngs were subjected for forced labour” In the year 1752 the Tsongs rose in arms, but were subdued and won over by tactfully by Chandzod Karwang.
You can imagine the punishment imposed upon them after they were won over. That means condition was not easy for “tsongs” in Sikkim. That is why they fled over to Limbuwana and invited Sen King to rule them.
Kirat_Rocks
When British with fighting with Tipu Sultan and other Kings in India they were also busy in war with Napoleon in Europe. Most of the war in India was funded by rival kings (with very high interest off course) and solders were Indians with few exception. So War with Tipu Sultan cannot be an obstacle for British to come in contact with Limbuwana.
It is because Limbuwana was controlled by Nepal, Sikkim or Sen Rajya in different time in History. Limbuwana.
Limbu History confuses itself by saying those tax collectors and security officers as king.
The Magar Chieftain Tashi Bidur also revolted, though he was subdued. Limbuana was, however, lost to Nepal.
http://sikkim.nic.in/sws/sikk_his.htm
This indicates that at that time Limbuwana was under Sikkim. And in Sikkim Magars also had to revolt, most probably there were not treated fairly.
Some website are writing like this
Same web site says
वि.सं. १८२५ तिर वुद्धिकर्ण राय लिम्वु राजा भए । उक्त समयान्तरमा अथिङहाङ लिम्वु पनि राजा भए ।
Whereas history of Sikkim, books written by British mentions Budhhikaran as sort of Ptime minister or military chief.
Why we need scientist ha?
PS: Don’t get upset when someone challenges your believe. Even the belief of existence of god has been challenged.
Mr. Daaku ,
During unification Gorkhali forces fought war with forces of Limbuwana. But that also does not necessarily give the existence of Kingdom in that area.
Why?
One of the very famous war Gorkhali fought was in Kirtipur, Gorkhali suffered heavy loss. PN Shah’s brother lost his eye and General Kalu Pandey was killed. Even PNS almost got killed. But Kirtipur was not a “Rajya”.
My friend, writing History wrong way brings strange changes in Society. They can make “Ram” and “Krishna” God. How many ppl worship them as God? And what is its impact on society. Some people might go crazy if someone publically says they were not god. And there are many temples constructed to house their idle (this part is constructive though, it created job, and help spread art at that time.)
FYI
Jesus cites wife in fourth-century script, says US scholar
A fourth-century fragment of papyrus that divinity professor Karen King says is the only existing ancient text that quotes Jesus explicitly referring to having a wife. Photograph: Karen King/AP
A Harvard University professor has unveiled a fourth-century fragment of papyrus she said is the only existing ancient text quoting Jesus explicitly referring to having a wife.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/19/jesus-wife-ancient-script-harvard
We don’t need story tellers writing history, we need scientist to find the truth.