Returning to Nepal with a US degree, good or a bad idea?

When i was working for a company in 2001, my salary was Rs25,000 then and so earning Rs. 1,00,000 should not be a big deal now but i agree with Pire, it is our mindset we need to change.

No one will pay you money just because you are a US graduate, there are a lot of people in Nepal themself with Nepali education who are smarter than you and they know the market and current work situations. You need to do your homework well and actually need to accept the current condition in Nepal if you are planning to live there.

" I left the States because I never had serious intentions of living in the States. But that doesn't mean that one could mistake my intentions as a noble one, as in, it was due to patriotism. That's not the case. I didn't return back because I was patriotic, neither did I return back because I couldn't find a job or found a way to extend my stay. I never sought an American lifestyle. I just felt like I didn't belong there."

That is honest statement. I love to read something that people write honestly. Through these lines, I feel, I am able to read you.

CEO of KIST bank makes more than 5 lakh per month. He is a CA from India, in his interview with Nepal TV he told that he was not bright student, he passed SLC in second division. He is from Palpa (i think) his last name is Gyawali (i think). 

You do not have to be  extemely talented to make money. Should enjoy whatever you are doing and keep on doing. There is saying in Geeta "focus on me you will be fine" , do your duty and let me take care of you, Krishna told Arjun. 

I think we should all read Geeta and follow geeta , we all will be happy.    

You're making a ton of hypothetical assumptions that are pretty inaccurate, Pire. I didn't return back without proper planning or anything. 

I'm got a Degree now and albeit I'm not required to bring a ton of dough in, I'm not 19 anymore. Hence, there's an expectation that I'll start seeking a career ( not doing some non-paid voluntary work, of course ). 

I didn't intend to imply that just because someone has a degree from the States means a lot. Further, I thought you were the same dude who stated that US Graduates were offered jobs at 1lakh/month. So, cut the "American Degree" bit and answer my question. 

Which bank run by morons ( or retards I should say ) offered a salary of 1 lakh/ month to entry level employees? By entry level employees, I hope you're talking about Bank Tellers or some entry level employees ( lower than Managerial positions ). 

 Agni,

Hmm. I think you are an unemployed, angry, frustrated young man. I don't see any point in talking to you anymore.

With Best wishes to you in your life.

 Agni,
my IQ dropped by couple of percentage just by reading your last post.

Pire,
Keep it cool. 

Interesting discussion.

Rather than stating my opinion I will post some information about me ( some things are slightly altered to ensure anonymity)

I returned to Nepal in April 2009 after spending ~6 years in the US. I graduated with a Bachelors in Finance from a decent US University (Top 40 US News Rankings), worked for 1 year on OPT, worked for 1 year on H1 and returned to Nepal. Currently, I am working as a Finance Officer for an INGO in Nepal. I earn ~35,000(gross pay) monthly which is ~11% of what I used to make in the US.

Hopefully this information will help some of you to make an informed choice.

As for why I returned to Nepal with just a bachelors degree

1) I had average grades (~3.5 gpa) and average GMAT score(~650) so I couldn't get into any good(top 15) Masters Program. I got into okay schools only. May be I was aiming too high.

2) I didn't return out of patriotism nor did I return because I couldn't find a job. I returned because of selfish reasons. I was fed up with living as an average Joe in the US. In US I was just another college graduate working for an average company but I felt if I returned to Nepal I will be special, I felt I would get respect from people because of my US degree; it took me 1 month in Nepal to realize how wrong I was. A bachelors degree doesn't mean anything in Nepal thesedays. I should have returned with at least a Masters (or preferably a PhD)

I like it in Nepal. I haven't tried to come back to the US on a H1 visa.

Easyname,

Highly appreciate your honest post. I think we need more 'from the ground in Nepal' posts like you have posted. It would help a lot of people living in the States to make a more informed decision.

I have already mentioned that we are too quick to generalize our understanding based on few observations. For those people who have a US green card (or PR of CANADA/AUS/EU) at one hand and strong family background in Nepal at the other hand, it is much easy to talk big about returning back. Karishma Manandhar, Saroj Khanal and Puja Chand did it recently. But Ramraja Poudel, despite being in the same boat, does not have the same story. So, I mentioned earlier, every case has a different story. People of different fields, e.g. science, managment, technology, education, health etc. may have different environment but the condition is similar.

There are plenty of success and failure stories about the returnees (US or elsewhere). If we collect data, I don't expect to see more success than failure side. Most so called successful people (who earned money and name) have somehow exhausted the corrupt system and loopholes. Those people who have tried to correct the system, be honest, and did not do "khurafati kaam", they are mostly "failed people" in the eyes of common citizen in Nepal.

The "lahure mentality" is deeply rooted in our society. Traditionally, our "Lahures" are expected to return back with fancy transistors, gold and wealth. Because of this mentality, your family and friends have high expectations, which is really hard to fulfill. Whether you "make job" or "take job", you have limitations. The system and infrastructure in Nepal is definitely not encouraging to "job makers" and "job takers". "Success stories" circulated in news media or networks like E4N, are purely made out of coincidental success. You can not draw out any systematic conclusion from that. You can not figure out any successful business model. Any of these "successful people" are not role model in our society for their work and contribution. Often these stories are written to provide false encouragement or to brag the success through a sponsered journalism. For me, these success stories are outliers, because I have seen many others failed who were in similar business.

 So, what's your point, Chana? Will you be successful, or unsuccessful, or you do not trust is statistics?

-- "what's your point, Chana?" --
My point is: it is hard to meet the expectation of our society (or family and friends, to be precise) for a returnee. If you are not good in "khurafati kaam", you are unlikely to success, provided that the continuation of the present system. People brag about "hard-work" after they earn money but the truth is that "Earning money without corruption is impossible in Nepal". The man who does not earn sufficient is not considered a successful person.  I have not seen a single successful person who confess that s/he is successful because s/he has used the loopholes of the system (except Hari Pandey).


-- "Will you be successful, or unsuccessful," --
Honestly, I do not know.


-- "you do not trust is statistics?" --
I trust, but I have not seen statistics of returnees yet. Those people I have seen around may not represent the population, so my current understanding may be wrong.

 chana,

You amaze me. The fact that you talk about the need for statistics in one hand while making statements after statements without any basis amazes me.

So, you think along the following lines - your sentences here-:

(i) the truth is that "Earning money without corruption is impossible in Nepal"
 
 You should be remembered for this "Impossibility Theorem". A Chanatarkari Impossibility Theorem. Kudos. I am assuming you had done good empirical studies to come up with this.
 
(ii) The man who does not earn sufficient is not considered a successful person.

Another gem from Chana Tarakari. Please define "sufficient" so that we know how much you are talking about. And who "considers" here? How does it differ from how people think in other countries, say, US?

(iii)So, I mentioned earlier, every case has a different story. People of different fields, e.g. science, managment, technology, education, health etc. may have different environment but the condition is similar. 

Boy, it is even more enlightening, new insight. What does "the condition is similar" mean here?

(iv) If we collect data, I don't expect to see more success than failure side. 

On what basis do you form your expectation here? What a vague statement from our great social scientist.

(v)Most so called successful people (who earned money and name) have somehow exhausted the corrupt system and loopholes

I have no idea what 'exhausting the corrupt system' means. But using loopholes is not illegal, is it?

In fact, this is what I call "antisuccessful people' mentality of our Nepali brothers. If someone is successful, rather than trying to understand how he coped with the existing system and how he achieved success, people like you are quick to lable them corrupt. This attitude demonizes successful people and tries to create stereotype about them. It also creates complacency in lousy, lazy complainers by letting them think that they are behind not because they were lazy but because they were beaten by corrupt people which may or may not be true.

(vi)Those people who have tried to correct the system, be honest, and did not do "khurafati kaam", they are mostly "failed people" in the eyes of common citizen in Nepal.

This is another gem. Now you are blaming common citizen. Common people appreciate all kinds of people. Who says, for example, Mahabir Pun was a "failed people"?

In summary, yet another generalization about successful people that attempts to discourage other people from working hard and is worth ignoring.

Newstudent,

In short: You are free to make your judgement. I have repeated that my understanding are based upon my observations. I make my judgement based on my limited information, and I understand I might be wrong. So, instead of naming them a "theorem" or awarding me any "jargons", I would appreciate if you could enlighten me showing that I am wrong based on facts and your observations.


I am adding following details to clarify the points you have marked.

(i) Everyone rich person (or family) around me are somehow corrupt. Exception: (1) those who made money by selling their land, either ancestral or the land they purchased when they were dirt cheap, (2) those who inherited ancestral wealth, and (3) those INGO staffs who earn six figure monthly salary. I, however, do not know if they pay tax or not. If they don't pay tax, these exception does not apply.

(ii) Earning "sufficient" is relative to his/her circle, with whom s/he mingles around. They are the people whose "consideration" makes you successful or not in your society. If you mingle around E4N picklist, you should be able to throw 2-4 lakh in simple gathering. If you mingle with middle-class doctor-engineers, you should be able to throw 50-60 hajaar in a small birthday-celebration gathering. If you are ordinary self-sustained professional, you should be able to throw 5-7 hajaar when you go to restaurent with your 4 friends. If you can not do, you are not considered as "successful" by your peers.

(iii) It means, no matter whatever is your field, you are successful only if you are rich. If you have PR of US/CANADA/AUS/EU, you may brag about "returning back", "desh ko maya", "desh bhitrai dherai garna sakinchha". (You don't need to prove it though). If you don't have PR, you are unlikely to brag about it.

(iv) the basis is my own observation, however, I do not claim that my observation should be true. Therefore I "expect".

(v) Yep, crook minds know smarter ways to utilize the loophole and corrupt mechanism to excel. Use of such loophole is not illegal until get caught. For example, IT consultants made money using the loophole in H1B visa quota, that was not illegal for long time, but when a few of them was caught, then they were prosecuted. Similarly, the ponzi scheme, that killed thousands of genuine investors, is another example. Now after knowing the darkside of ponzi scheme, do you think the ponzi scheme gurus were great? The investors lost not because they did no DD but because they were duped by corrupt ponzi scheme drivers, which is now proven truth.

(vi) You may say it a "blame" but it is in our society everywhere. Just read some comments on honest fathers in some other thread that was here in sajha recently talking about corrupt people in our family.

I do not buy any bragging about "successful people" if they are not transparent. For example Ichha Tamang, many people know how he was an unsuccessful lecturer 15 years ago. Perhaps nobody knows the facts behind his success, except talking about civil-homes. Do you think he ever makes his earning transparent to the public? If his progress/success/earning is not transparent then what is the point of iconizing him as a successful person? DB lama, Bharat Gurung or Charles Shovaraj also might have earned tonne-load of money.

Lets see a real successful person Mark Zuckerberg. You/me or everyone can get information on his progress/success/earning, and follow his activities, isn't it? We are sure he is not exploiting loopholes/corruption to make his fortune. We know he can't escape if he does anything wrong, e.g., he paid millions of dollars for some of his colege-day-misconducts. This is the confidence that a good system provides and you would buy the stories of successful person.

I prefer to talk about successful people, who is transparent, like Mahabir Pun, but by glorifying "corrupt, unethical, non-transparent rich people", do you really encourage nepalese people to work hard in Nepal or encourage just to be rich somehow? Read these two news pieces I visited today that highlight the general young mentality and lawlessness in the country,
http://nagariknews.com/society/nation/22853-2011-01-28-11-00-10.html
http://www.nayapatrika.com/newsportal/cover_story/21257.html
and then tell me what would be the message of these stories to a prospective US returnee.

-----
PS: (pasted from previous post)
I did not join this thread to encourage or discourage someone who has a plan to return back. I just wanted to share some of my observations and show both sides of a coin so that it would be easier for people getting out of "romanticism" as Agni mentioned somewhere in his post. In the past I encouraged some people to return, and that worked great for them, but I can not generalize the case.  

"  I would appreciate if you could enlighten me showing that I am wrong based on facts and your observations"

So, basically, what you are saying is that 

(i) you can make any statement without providing evidence

BUT

(ii) it is upto us, sojhasajha sajhabasi who read your theorems, who has to provide facts/observations to repudiate/support them?

It is upto you to provide supporting evidence.

One cursory reading of your posting also shows that 

(i) You think in America , you can find all the history of an individual, every rich man is honest tax payers etc etc.

You obviously haven't seen the states. First, start from your neighborhood. How much of Indian restaurant owners, 7-11 owners pay tax honestly? How much of sajhabasi who work in gas stations can say their owners are honest tax payers?

People's tendency to avoid tax here is as much as they are elsewhere. Who invented offshore accounts to avoid tax? Who looks for loopholes in existing laws to avoid paying tax ala Shawshank Redemption? Speaking of Ponzi Schemes, it seems US is full of Ponzi schemes. The Madoff incidence should be fresh to many of us-- there was another billionaire Stanford who was caught last year and there are surely many others undetected.

People can't avoid paying tax in their salary, their tax incomes etc, and that is true in Nepal too. I agree that people generally avoid paying tax in Nepal; or rather, the state is inefficient in raising tax. But speculations that "Ichhchha Tamang must have evaded tax because he is rich" can come only from a jealous mind.

I neither encourage nor discourage people from going to Nepal. If you think you can succeed there, go there. If you feel good there, go there. Don't go there only to whine. If you think you can change something there, go there. There are many honest success stories. If you think you are better off here, stay here. But don't give that shit about every successful person there is corrupt whereas every rich person here is transparent. 
==
I enjoyed your point by point rebuttal if I may say so. It is a waste of time to make comment on every of your answers , but here is another gem from you:

(iv) the basis is my own observation, however, I do not claim that my observation should be true. 

I mean, this is a sentence, this is what you wrote, and I wonder whether you have any idea what you wrote.

So, let me understand:
(1) You claim something.
(2) When asked what the basis of your claim is you say it is your own observation. [Apparently there is nothing else to form the basis.]
(3) But you add, this is classic, that you don't claim your observation should be true.

So you said you observed something, but you don't claim what you observed is true. Oh, my god. And this is actually something you wrote.

My suggestion: please don't go to Nepal. Nepal is probably better off as it is without you.

:)

 


Source: ekantipur

Source: ekantipur

Newstudent,

I believe my observations rather than those stories published via sponsored journalism. I wont write the names of those US returnees or identify someone to provide evidence just to convince someone in sajha. I only mention names whose names are already in media.

If you think I said every rich man in USA is honest, then you did not properly undertand my opinion. The "Ichhchha Tamang must have evaded tax because he is rich" is your word, not mine. I just said, his published success story is not transparent enough to convince someone properly understand how he is converted to a successful enterpreneour from an unsuccessful lecturer. If you think this is a "jealous mind", then everyone who ask for transparacy in the world are jealous people for you. I don't agree with that idea.

My point is that, do not glorify the so called "success story" that is not transparent. For those people thinking about returning back to Nepal, they have to look both success and failure. My intuition is that chances of failure is higher than success, if you are not accustomed to "Khurafati Kaam".

I am surprised how you get wrong understanding, You wrote
"So, let me understand:
(1) You claim something.
(2) When asked what the basis of your claim is you say it is your own observation. [Apparently there is nothing else to form the basis.]
(3) But you add, this is classic, that you don't claim your observation should be true."

You should also understand
(1) that is my understanding based on my observations
(2) I am sharing my opinion/judgement because that may be helpful to others. Some other might have similar observation but a different opinion, and then there may be a chance to exchange opinions. To explain the basis of my understanding, I need to tell you my observation. I may do if I know you personally, and trust enough that you would respect privacy concerns of the people involved. But in sajha, NO, I don't prefer to tell them all. So, I just say, it is my observation. If you believe it, fine, If you don't, I don't care.
(3) I am not hard-wired to believe that my judgement is always right, that is why I ask people to refute my judgement. If you don't know this, you don't know "bade bade jayete tatwobodha".

And, about going Nepal or not, I have not asked you to suggest. Unasked suggestion is not welcome. Sorry.

 Chana,

Tell me one thing:

(i) Have you tried to find out whether Ichha Tamang had paid tax or not?

If not, what did you expect these news about him to publish to satisfy you? A rashid for all taxes he has paid so far?

(ii) Have you tried to find out whether Zuckerbert had paid taxes ?

Most likely, Mr Tarkari, 

You didn't do either (i) or (ii). You came here, and wrote your prejudices. You assumed something about Ichchha, and you also assumed something about Zuckerberg.

I actually found it funny that you even talked something about statistics, data and so on. That was really funny, Mister.

Newstudent,

I thought I would pack up for today, but here is a quick and last response for the day.

It is not me or you who should run after Ichchha Tamang or Zuckerberg searching their tax rashids. It is the system we rely on. When the success stories are made public, the author is also responsibile to search the information if he is asked for it. It is not prejudice to mention that the story is not transparent because the story glorifies him as a successful enterpreneur but does not mention that he was kicked out from a running class he was teaching 15 years ago, because nobody understood what he was teaching. Did I give you enough hint what I know about him?

It is actually funny to read your expectation that someone writing opinion in sajha has to go and collect tax rashid and has to verify that before asking for transparacy.

पर्खाल पारी के छ के छ ? बिदेश गए पछी त्यो कौतुहल पनि मेटियो , पर्खाल पारी के छ भन्ने कुरा पनि राम प्रसाद जि ले !

कुरो रह्यो नाक जोगाउने? यो नै सबै भन्दा गाठी कुरो रहेछ ? हुन त हाम्रो धमैले पनि मनुस्य जातिलाई कर्म अनुसार बर्ण बिभाजन गरिदिएको ले आझै पनि यो बर्ग र बर्ण जन्जाल बाट मुक्त पाउन कठिन् नै हुन्छ तर देश खाइ , खारिएर आए पछी घैटोमा घाम लागे पछी कसैले रोक्न सकेन लागे ब्यवसाय गर्न, ब्यवसाय ले ब्यबसाई बनाउदै लगे पछी तिनै साथीभाइ हरु हिस्सबुडी खिस्स दात भए होलान ।

सक्छौ ब्यवसाय गर , सक्दैनौ ।।।।।।।।।।।।।।।।।। उखान सुनेको छ ?