How could people tolerate a rapist being in such a Nepali conference? Either boycott the conference, where rapists like Ajay Kumar Dev are the members and terrorists like NEPE are giving some talk or, Just thrash these people out of the convention and make the convention enjoyable and knowledgeful. Whats your say guys?
pyaari kt · Jul 1, 2009 5:56 PM · 205,200 views
I am of the view that you, madam, might be verging on idiocy. that guy is in jail so won't be coming to the convention. Nepe is jsut giving his personal view. you are welcome to disagree but freedom of speech is anyone's right. Now if you are asking for an explanation from ANA then that's verging towards some intelligence.
GuitarDaku · Jul 1, 2009 8:21 PM
pyaari kt, You are more emphasizing to Dev in every thread, ya, it is USA and he has been punished by law, it is too much to see his name everywhere, It seems like every body want to talk about that phohor " Phohor lai chalayo bhane ganauchha" He is more than phohor, so why you want to talk about phohor
timer · Jul 1, 2009 9:09 PM
ANA needs to change their Association name immediately. Otherwise, this ANA will be known as A*SH*LE NEPALESE ASSOCIATION very soon.
Sexy In Sari · Jul 1, 2009 10:11 PM
Dear timer,I respect your view because everyone has right of expression in democracy and democratic country. But i want some clearification from ANA about Ajay's case because he is related to ANA. Why ANA formed?Who are benifited by it?People like Ajay or people like that innocent girl? Don't they think to write some word to support that girl who was like dead body for years? Why people run only after money,don't they have humanity? I may not have proper information about ANA activities but this is time to show them that they are really to all lvel of Nepalese. I am not aganist ANA but we should not promote people like Ajay.
crackboy · Jul 3, 2009 3:44 PM
Crackboy, Definitely, Ajay has place but in hell. Regarding ANA, I don't know it is right place to clarify about Ajay but they also should clarify their stand and give sympathy to the girl.
timer · Jul 3, 2009 5:38 PM
Hi All, I have known both parties for a longest time. The girl whose name is "Sapana" is not even a victim. She is one manupulative girl who had no interest in her studies. She is a boy crazy. She had uncountable Muslim BF'S she used to bring home( Ajay's Home; while Ajay/Wife was at work) . I watched guys coming in her house while A/His wife were at work. She closed her curtains for not more than one and half hour. They were all older guys than her. I even told A/His wife. Ajay/His wife had a talk with her " No Boys" in the house but still the guys kept coming over. She had several warnings regarding boys but she didnot stop. Well, I called Ajay and told him to get home as soon as he can. He did and caught her . This time Ajay had a talk with the guy. The guy later dumped her which made her very furious.She even found out that it was me who was watching her.There were few other Nepali too but noone wanted to let the adopted parents know about their daughter.She was brought in this country by by Ajay/His wife because they were married for 13 years and didnot have any child. They adopted her and brought her to USA. A/His wife had organized a small welcome party for their daughter .Sapana was introduced to all of us by Ajay/His wife as their daughter. Ajay/His wife put her through College, which happened to be my College too. She was not a studying type. But boy! she was upto something. She never spoke to any Nepali that much. She never had female friends as far as I know.
Dance Zone · Jul 6, 2009 8:51 PM
Dance Zone, Well..Ajay is in loosing position regardless of your story being true or false. Nothing Justifies having sex with a minor. It doesn't matter if there was a consent or not. Ajay was not a retard and whatever he did he did it with a full conscience. There was a link to the forum where Jurors were saying he actually having sex with her when she was a minor on a recorded phone call. Just because the victim was a "Bad Girl", it doesn't give him a right to abuse her. He will pay the price for his crime ( mistake ) Sid
sidster · Jul 6, 2009 9:02 PM
She accused him of having her do 3 abortions. But the truth is that Ajay couldnot have baby for 12 years thats why she was adopted. Ajay's doctor testified Ajay in the court that is not possible it was Ajay who pregnanted her. I am noone's side here. She lied from the beginning. If Ajay was not convicted she would have to go back to Nepal for good. Which she would have never let it happen. Her Green Card was taken away. But now she will get her Citizenship. She really got him good. But the truth will come out soon.
Dance Zone · Jul 6, 2009 10:31 PM
i am not supporting to anyone here. but, i am clear in thinking that anyone who exploits the minor should be punished. But, her 3 abortions???? made me think in the logic of Dance Zone. they are not having child for 13 years and that is due to Ajay (if true), then how can she prove she got pregnent? i guess, Ajay's family wanted to send her back to Nepal because they could not control her. But she wanted to stay in America. Someone gave her evil idea to blame him...........bla bla. ( i read somewhere that when she went nepal, ajay forced her not to come back to USA. i guess, that might be the reason. Because she was not his daughter, he might have felt sorry for her family that he could not control her bad works.) just i guesss guys. i have no connection with any of the parties. when i heard that story, i felt really sorry for that girl. but, now i want to wait and see what the court will think about it. i want to hear the decision of court, really want is. If he is a criminal, he should be punished-that i can say confidently. No one should try to distort the fact to save him if he committed the crime. but if she is trying to exploit his good being--------who cares to be damn good for someone else in the future????? (i have seen same story in my neighbourhood but not in Nepalese community. euta khaire le adopt gareki keti thikka 18 barsa pugeko din gaali galauj gardai spanish keta sanga bhagi. usko sangat kaale, khairey sabai sanga.........nakkali thi. yeha yesta kharab sujhab dine dherai chhan. child do not know about that and they think their parents are trying to over control them.)
hundari · Jul 7, 2009 12:14 AM
whether a girl is bad or not doesn't mean one can have sex with a minor.. like sidster said.. its a crime to have sex with a minor and i did read it in one of the blog not a news source that he admitted about having sex with his adopted daughter.. even if the girl lied about the pregnancy, ajay is still a culprit for having sex with a minor.. and regarding ANA and ajay. Personally i never attended any ANA convention nor plan to but ajay and ANA is two different thing just because ajay (member of ANA) did a criminal act doesn't mean ANA should be brought up here.. I mean there are so many cases when one or two bad soldiers abuse innocent (usually muslims) and kill em... they do get punished by law but we never said ohh the entire army system is fcked up and they should do something about it... there is always a crack in a dam... doesn't me we should stop building one...
last_buddha · Jul 7, 2009 12:30 AM
Dear Dance Zone,Your story may be right or wrong but i am sure that the girl was not bad when she was in Nepal because Ajay's families were familiar about her character so they adopted her. Now my question with u and Ajay's families as follows: Who were responsible about girl's situation?As a parents why they could't stop her spoiling her character if ur story right? Did they complain authority before girl complain? U said couple didn't have kids for 13 yrs,this was because of Ajay or his wife?Can u post doctor's report that said Ajay is uncapable for fertility? Do u want to prove that USA law(minor sex is strongly punishable) allows to have sex with minor if she is bad?
crackboy · Jul 7, 2009 1:13 AM
She was out of control after she came to USA. Ajay/Wife were so stressed out. What could they do? beside taking away her Green Card and send her back to Nepal. Ofcourse she was not going to let it happen. I attended the court. She was asked questions after questions. Example: When was she raped/how many times. She said she didnot remember, she cant recall. All her answers were " I dont remember/Icant recall." And during trail she had mentioned she was raped 42 times ,other time she said she was raped 56 times. And she was asked 42 or 56? She said again "She does not remember" ,"She doesnot recall". Well I hope for justice. Only god knows who is right or wrong. Yes no rapist should get away with rape. But no innocent man should serve in prison for rape he didnot commit too.
Dance Zone · Jul 7, 2009 1:38 AM
3 Abortion charges were dropped.
Dance Zone · Jul 7, 2009 1:48 AM
Wow now blame the victim, out of control? Who would want to stay at home when the so called adoptive father wants to have sex with minor adoptive daughter? That is sick. It was proven in the court and he is punished by law. Child pornography in his computer, that sure sounds like a sick person. Look what jurors, victims friends and Ajay's friends have to say in this forum http://www.topix.com/colleges/... I am just posting some of the jurors comments in the forum. The pretext phone call made soon after the victim went to the Police provided more than enough evidence to corroborate the victim's allegations and launch the investigation. The extensive amount of child pornography found on Dev's computers provided more justification to investigate. There were many, many statements in the call where Dev admitted or did not deny the victim's statement that he had molested her since the age of 15. The "coincedence" of the arrest in nepal was that Ajay "just happened" to be in nepal at the time and the reporter of the passport issue was his relative which he was staying with while in Nepal. Coincidence, that is one big bag of several coincidences... AND THEN, once she was arrested, his family here in the states started a letter writing campaign to keep her out of the US. They sent many letters to the INS hoping that would do the trick. Then several other family members traveled to Nepal during the court trial to "keep on eye" on what was transpiring in the court. Yeah, coincidence....
ss74k · Jul 7, 2009 6:25 AM
There was a voice recording of Ajay admitting having sex with her before and after she was 18. Jurors said that sole evidence proved that he was indeed having sex with her. It doesn't matter how crazy she was....Ajay still committed a crime with having sex with a minor be it Rape or not Rape. You could be right that she was crazy, out of control, and a bad girl but Ajay is not getting punished for Girl's behavior, he is getting punished for having sex with a minor. Sid
sidster · Jul 7, 2009 7:40 AM
Is he in the Jail right now?
djdev · Jul 7, 2009 7:41 AM
abortion case dropped!!!!! but who made her to do abortion should be punished or not? aren't they minor rapist. i don't care if these guys had physical relation with that minor with her consent............my point is why did they have physical relation with an underaged girl. Is anything going on with those guys or not? and, other side..............you people are talking about Ajay had a sex with underaged girl, that's true. but she was her daughter (no matter adopted or not). Daughter bhane pachhi daughter nai ho....... 18 cross gare pachhi pani sexual relation rakhna painna........... In this case, Ajay is culprit from both point of view............Sapana is also senseless girl (its a crime) who tried to blame someone's abortion to him (it shows clearly that she had really bad intention or feelings to her adopted dad.). I wonder what is going on about those guys who raped her and made her pregnant. Are they free of charge???????? how can court justify those guys "not criminal". This girl seems too bad man! May god save her "hunewala husband". already 3 abortions in this early age. i just amazed/just astonished. i wish for her bright future. May god show her good way in the future. [i am sure in the fact that her adopted father was bad, but she was no good either.] in this particular case, she should get justice against Ajay, and she must get punitive damages or something from those guys too.
hundari · Jul 7, 2009 1:28 PM
I hope the comments posted below will help to see the truth. Juror: IF ANYONE LISTENED TO THE PRETEXT TELEPHONE CALL BETWEEN THE VICTIM AND DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE THEY WOULD KNOW THE DEFENDANT WAS GUILTY. HE ADMITTED ON A TAPED CONVERSATION HE HAD SEX WITH THE VICTIM, NOT ONLY ONCE BUT TWICE. THAT IS HARD TO DISPUTE AND IS A FACT!!!! Sueme: He attempted to pressure her to keep this a secret, even travelled to Nepal to accomplish it. To be convicted...well there has to overwhelming circustantial evidence backed by few concrete facts. Money talks. And if you hold a prominent position in society well that's a double whammy. I'm sure he was thinking he's invincible. Is it coincident that she got detained in Nepal for falsified information on her passport? I'm sure she is one of MANY who have falsified information on passport. But its ironic that she would be held back in Nepal during her visit. Who would have the passport information anyway...parental figure? Who would report this...well, it might be someone who wants her quieted, or shed bad light on her character so he would come out smelling like a rose. I'm sure these sort of rapes/molestations are going on throughout his friends' groups. May be that should be looked into as well. Wanet: There were many, many statements in the call where Dev admitted or did not deny the victim's statement that he had molested her since the age of 15. juror: Please believe me when I tell you that we tried every way possible to come up with an innocent interpretation of the statement. Because the very next statement from his mouth was "that means you gave me consent", any other interpretations did not make sense at all. Like I sais before, the entire defense was that no sexual relationship EVER happened. With that one statement, the entire defense strategy was shot. If he did nothing wrong why was his family so afraid of her getting back here and why did he want her to go to Canada for her education (which he would pay for)? HMMMM, statute of limitations possibly????
lakhe · Jul 7, 2009 1:52 PM
At least we nepali started talking on this matter.... Dear Dance_Zone, the truth had already came out. The Juror's have already decided on this case. They claimed that they had enough evidence to convict Ajay as a rapist and molester. I haven't listened pre-text version of phone conversation. I think we sould listen it first. Forget about how many BFs she had ..... the juror had heard the case and they convicted Ajay. They know the case more enough that us. Reading at the post from site http://www.topix.com/colleges/... juror's and U.S. Embassy at Nepal also envolved in getting the victim back to U. S. They also know what had happened to the victim when she travelled to Nepal. The abortion case was dropped becasue, according to Juror's, there were not enough evidences. If you are a close friend of the victim you should know if she ever had abortion. On Aug, 7, the judge will send Ajay to prison for very long time............
rmny · Jul 7, 2009 3:23 PM
Yes A is convicted but still there is hearing this coming month. She lied so much. I wish someone post the taped conversation Ajay and Sapana had. Sapana's bf's were in stand too admiting that they slept with Sapana.. She may have had abortions from those guys.Its so hard to believe as I know both paties very well. Sapana is very manupulative. If she was really raped I hope she gets justice but If Ajay is innocent I hope he gets justice too.
Dance Zone · Jul 7, 2009 6:42 PM
Dear Dance_Zone, True, there is a hearing left for Ajay but it will be very difficult that the judge will over rule and flip the conviction. One thing you might have heard that Ajay admitted having sex with the victim on recorded phone conversation. Having sex with minor is crime in the U. S. whether it is consent or not. You should read the comment posted at thread http://www.topix.com/colleges/... then you will know how Ajay was convicted of rape and molest.
rmny · Jul 7, 2009 8:31 PM
Dance zone, Why are you yapping about victims character, can you prove it? How hard is your head to believe he admitted having sex with the adopted girl during phone conversation. Did you forget child pornography pictures in the defendants computer? Shows the true character of the defendants. The jurors in that site has clearly explained how they came to conclusion with all the facts. I hope he rots in jail for causing emotional trauma to the victim.
ss74k · Jul 7, 2009 8:51 PM
A few misconceptions that I would like to clear up... 1. The boyfriend (ONLY 1) that testified and admitted to sexual relationships with the victim was her boyfriend long after the preganacies. He could not have been the father. All pregnancies were after she was 18 so there was no crime if it was a boyfriend. There were no convictions about the pregnancies. There was no proof on who the fathers were, Ajay or other... 2. When the victim confronted her abuser in the phone conversation about being the father of the babies, he did NOT deny it. 3. It was not 3 abortions. 4. The only hearing later this month is on August 7th when he will be sentenced. that is unless the Judge decides that the decision was wrong and starts the process to overturn the verdicts. (Which I highly doubt since he has access to more information that any of us). 5. Ajay was able to inpregnate a woman. His wife had a baby. Yes, he had a low sperm count, he was not spermless. It only takes 1 sperm to get a female pregnant.... Lastly, I would like to invite ANY man out there who can justify a father stating to his daughter "You F*&cked me after the age of 18, that means you gave me consent" to please give an innocent explanation....
allysma · Jul 8, 2009 12:26 AM
Allysma, the quote you have posted at the end explained to me that Ajay had sexual relationship after the age of 18 and it was consentual. If it was just "You F*&cked me after the age of 18" but not included "that means you gave me consent" it can be interpreted different way.
RmNY · Jul 8, 2009 10:52 AM
We all have the right to talk and our views. RMNY stop barking!! Or are you her husband or were her bf before? Only she knows what she is capable of. What proof do you have that she really was raped? Did you actually hear Ajay admiting it? We never heard that. I can understand law is law but an innocent man has been convicted before too many times for false accusations!!
Dance Zone · Jul 8, 2009 11:04 AM
Dance Zone you are liar, that proved in the another site. You forgot to mentioned Ajay has a baby with his wife, you were boasting how he is infertile. You forgot to mention the child pornography in Dev's computer. All of them were proven in the court. The victim has only one boy friend testified according to juror in the another site, the boy friend is after she turned 18. You are sicko just like Dev. Juror has given you good answer in the another site. http://www.topix.com/colleges/... RmNy here is the statement from one of the juror from the other site. Juror:After this comment, the next thing he said was "that means you gave consent". Several times he mentions she should forget about things that happened at age 15 because now, she is over 18... Nepali wrote: <quoted text> Could you please provide me 3 to four sentences that proceeded and came after the "You Fu@#ed me after 18 years of age" comment so that I can get sense of the context including the cultural and circumstancial context he was talking in. I want to be sure they were not things like, I adopted you, provided you a good life, gave you everything parents can give and then you turn 18 and Fu@#ed me, etc.... I wish the court documents and the the full length Pretext was already available on-line for all of us to listen.
ss74k · Jul 8, 2009 11:17 AM
Dance Zone, Do we really need to argue over whether Ajay raped his daughter or not????? Isn't the fact that Ajay having sex with his daughter alone sufficient to know that Ajay is a sicko???? You can argue on how some of the charges on Ajay could be false but don't try to convince the forum that Ajay is innocent. They had an audio recording of him admitting of having sex with his daughter. Sid
sidster · Jul 8, 2009 1:30 PM
How could a normal person can watch child pornography, this person is sick for sure. This person should be on prison or there will be other victim, Is his own child will be safe with him?? I felt so sorry for this adopted girl, having a multiple boyfriend is her own choice but molested by her so called father is something different. You guys wrote lot's of bad things about her but how can a girl who was molested by a father at her early age could be normal??
Rachel Green. · Jul 8, 2009 2:06 PM
My observation going through the thread. Allysma: You sound like one of the jurors Dance Zone: Ajay's brother or close relatives (I can be wrong) Ajay did have sex with his adopted daughter when she was minor (he legally committed a crime). If we are talking about whether Ajay is a rapist or criminal, it is not necessary to bring the girl's present character. He confessed doing this means, he commited a crime. Due to Ajay's molestation, the girl, Sapana, changed and became something that Dance Zone is alleging. She may be manipulative, having random sex with guys or what ever, it reflects what Ajay did to her in her early days in the US. If he was protective of this girl as his daughter, she would probably not become like this. Therefore, Ajay is a criminal no matter how bad she has become now. He also committed a crime because his acts made her to become bad. She would most likely to be like any other Nepali woman now if she was not subjected to what Ajay did. Use common sense, guys. Either way the girl is the victim and Ajay is the criminal.
purush · Jul 8, 2009 2:20 PM
Such issues in Nepali organizations are nothing new. Few years ago another similar discussion took place here and no results....no action....but there were more people to defend culprit and justify how smarta nd intellectual he was....FYI http://www.wavemag.com.np/issu... http://www.thenepaldigest.org/... So just read it, swallow it and move on with life....I guess unless Nepalis get serious.
testaicha · Jul 8, 2009 2:43 PM
Have your heard the recorded tape A admiting it? I am not convinced till I hear it. I am not related to Ajay or Sapana. I want Sapana to get justice if she really is a victim. But I also dont want innocent to spent entire life in prison.
Dance Zone · Jul 8, 2009 6:56 PM
Yes, I have heard it....several times.....
allysma · Jul 8, 2009 8:17 PM
Are u a friend or related to sapana? Did u hear the tape at teh court? Do u know where I can hear it?
Dance Zone · Jul 8, 2009 8:20 PM
Dear Dance Zone, I am neither victims ex-bf nor husband. I am just a sympathizer..... Whether we hear the tape conversation or not it really does not matter now. The case is in the hand of court and they decided based on what they have heard. To my view, Ajay is opportunistic who tried to get away with the crime he committed. Jurors in court have heard enough to convict Ajay as molester and rapist. They have recorded phone conversation as a real evidence where Ajay said he had consensual sex with the victim as Jurors in the other post said. Wait till Aug 7th and you will know how long Ajay will be behind the bar.
RmNY · Jul 8, 2009 9:00 PM
Dance Zone, I am neither a friend nor a relative of either the victim or the defendant.. Purush is correct about me. I was on the jury. I heard the tape in the court room and then several times during deliberations.... Our verdicts were based almost completely on that phone call. I really wish you would quit referring to the victim by her name. She has been victimized by his family enough and does not deserve to have her name plastered all over the internet by you. A few things that noone has heard yet... Ajay was arrested twice, the last time being after he bailed out of jail and immediately began making threatening phone calls to the victims family in Nepal to make the whole thing go away. he went so far as to tell them that they would end up in the same place she was in if it did not go away. There was an assualt outside of the USA which the victim had never mentioned. It was the defense attorney who brought the attack up and she admitted that it had happened and she had not mentioned it before. The defencse attorney used that as something that she may have lied about. Question is, how did he know about it? The only way he would have known was if the defendant told him about it... Once the victim had gone to Nepal for a wedding, he just happened to be in Nepal staying with a family member when that person made a police report about her and she was arrested. A birthdate issue on her passport. She was stranded in Nepal for a year and a half. During this time, his family here began a letter writing campaign to keep her out of the US. Ajay even went so far as to offer her to have her education paid for if she agreed to go to Canada and stay there for a number of years (statute of limitations). Why would he do that for someone who had claimed he raped her for 5 years unless he wanted her to keep quiet? I want everyone to know that he did receive a fair trial. He admitted to having sex with her after he claimed that the entire story was made up and that NOTHING ever happened between them. Once we heard the phone call, we all knew his defense had gone to hell... Had it been for her testimony alone, he would not be where he is now. There would be no proof. It was listening to him on a 45 minute phone call that put him there.... I have seen people write that had she come to them before, they would support her. Problem being, that is the exact opposite of what happened. Everyone in the extended family completely shunned her and have not spoken to her since.... Last edited: 09-Jul-09 12:01 AM
allysma · Jul 8, 2009 11:13 PM
What I am surprised is that Nepali community keep finding way to defend people like Ajay Dev and Arun Sharma in Arizona and others. During Arun Sharma's case, so called Nepali community leaders raised money to bail him out an dhe is still under strong stpulationa nd not allowed to be around minors (20 ft or so) etc and group like ANA do not stop giving him responsibilities and publishing pictures in the newsletter and our community keep participating in Nepal Democracy forum etc to give him more importance and encourgaement..... Let me just ask those of you in this forum who have kids or minors at home....after knowing all of it, how will you feel if people like Ajay Dev and Arun Sharma etc come to your house and stay overnight.
sabaikobabu · Jul 8, 2009 11:38 PM
Allysma, Thanks for joining this forum and letting people know the truth. Dance Zone, Its time that you give up on feeding Sajha people that Ajay was innocent. Sid
sidster · Jul 9, 2009 8:17 AM
There are a few points on the phone call that people like Dance may want to know about that will give some insight as to why we found him guilty.. There were actually 2 phone calls that we heard. the first one was between the victim and Ajay's wife. That call is the victim trying to talk to her "daddy" and the mother refusing to allow her to speak to him. The victim mentions that if he will not speak to her, that she will be forced to talk to the police about something but refuses to tell the mother what it is about.. The next call is between the victim and Ajay. By this time he should already know there is something that she wants to go the police about. We assumed his wife had talked to him about the first call. It starts out with the victim telling him that she went to the school counselor and they began talking about her sex life and the abortions. The victim asks Ajay if she should tell the counselor about their relationship "should I tell the counselor about you and me daddy?". Not once does he ask "what relationship" or "what are you talking about", the only thing he wants to know is why she went to the counselor and whos phone she is using to call him. He flips back and forth from English to Nepali during this 45 minute conversation. During the parts in Nepali, he is telling her to keep quiet and not go to the police, not to talk on the phone about "these" things, and to forget about things that happened when she was 15. When he is speaking English, it is all about "this is the worst accusation that you could make" and telling her to go to the police right away and that he would defend himself. It appears that his wife is near him when he is speaking English becasue the entire tone changes. At one point the victim asks him if mom is in the room and asks if that is why he is speaking English all of a sudden... She attempts several times to get off the phone but he does not want her to hang up. Yes, several times he completely denies anything but only when he is speaking English. He tries to keep her on the phone and continues the English/Nepali bantor. Finally, the ultimate comment of "you fu*&ed me after the age of 18, that means you gave consent". I hope this helps to shed some light and helps people realize that he is guilty and he is right where he needs to be....
allysma · Jul 9, 2009 9:50 AM
The victim's name, if it is real, should NOT have been revealed here. This can jeopardize the case and you (the one who said it first) can be taken to court. That is so wrong for a Jury to come out and speak publicly about the case.I hope you have the court's permission. Sabaikobabu The reason we defend people is that it is a part of our culture. Sujata Koirala defends her dad Girij, which makes her a good daughter to him. If she were a good person ( with a Western philosophy) she would turn her back and denounce her father. But that makes a bad daughter back in Nepali culture. We'll do anything for loved one even if it involves crime, murder, sin or corruption. It is written in our blood, which is a critical factor how we shape our society and where we are. Ajay's parents are good parents who went so far to defend their son, at least from Nepali's point of view. Our culture would be better off learning those values from the West and stop those corrupt Indian cultural influences.
Bob Marley · Jul 9, 2009 11:05 AM
Bob Marley, Jurors have rights to speak after the case is done but they cannot speak to the outside world when the case is going on. Don't you see in high profile case how jurors get interview after the case is done? Reading the statement from allysman, it is horror for any girl to get raped that also from adoptive father. What a sicko...
ss74k · Jul 9, 2009 11:23 AM
Bob Marley, I am able to discuss the case now. It is over and we found him guilty. I cannot be paid for talking about the case but I can talk about it now... I am not Nepalese. I do not claim to understand the "typical" Nepali family structure. I do believe that any Nation, Nationality, Religion, or whatever culture who believes that incestual relationships are acceptable is completely disgusting (biological or otherwise). If reporting what he did to her makes her a bad Nepali girl, I for one will give her kudos and tell her WAY TO GO GOOD AMERICAN GIRL!!!!!
allysma · Jul 9, 2009 10:23 PM
allysma, i have been following this thread and i am surprised that you have been reduced to attacking nepali culture now. this is not about any culture or nation but rather about families and justice. In any case, there's two sides to the story and we are all trying to get at the truth. do not try to attack a culture with your implications. Also, how can just phone calls be the ONLY evidence that is drawn (and I am talking with regards to any case not just to this one). That sounds very shaky. What's the reason behind you mentioning that A was in Nepal when the girl went there too? Isn't is obvious that they are family and obviously they share same relatives and they would be at the wedding at the same time?? I don't see that much relevance in that fact. And of course, the guilty should be charged. Don't get me wrong. But in any case, there's two sides to the issue and the punishment should fit the crime. We do but only have one life to live!!! And Karma will get back to anyone who did injustice...
GuitarDaku · Jul 9, 2009 10:43 PM
Allysma Thanks for clearifying, I was under the impression that the deliberation was NOT set yet. That SOB deserves to rot in hell. GuitarDaku, Get over with it. You got to be so pathetic and insecured to be bothered by what Allysma said, which to me makes perfectly sense. Don't paint Nepali people as saints and our culture is as F!!ck as the rest of the world. So you think the justic system was a flaw, conpared to where...Nepal? You must definetly be a relative of that scum Ajay. Last edited: 09-Jul-09 11:21 PM
Bob Marley · Jul 9, 2009 11:20 PM
GuitarDaku I am not attacking the Nepali culture. I am responding to Bob Marley who states that the victim would be considered a "bad girl" in Nepali culture for reporting the crime. I am sorry if you took it that way. Ajay did not go to the wedding, he went there to shut her up about the crime which is why he was found guilty of persuading a witness. As soon as he arrived in Nepal, she was arrested on some trumped charge of a bad birthdate which kept her trapped for a year and a half.... The phone call was a big part of the decision but not the whole decision. Keep in mind though that Ajay did not testify. The only words that we heard from him were on that tape and it told us most of what we needed to know to make a decision.
allysma · Jul 9, 2009 11:21 PM
allysma, Its good you came and cleared the things up. I just want to mention that incest is not acceptable in Nepalese society. peace
highfly · Jul 10, 2009 12:03 AM
Bob marley, If you were as smart as you think you were, you would attack my points and not me. Go and smoke your dope, man... Your need to see the world in black and white speaks for itself. Implications mean a lot and there is a difference between being paranoid and being realistic. Allysma, I read some postings back that only the phone call swayed your decisions that's why I said, it's shaky. Hell, I am not a lawyer and thank god, i didn't choose that field and I am inclined to trust the judge but I have seen cases with friends here who have been accused of wrong things which harmed their lives irreparably. For eg, I have a friend (who is an ex-marine) who was accused of having a bomb (bomb making materials) in a car because he had left over fireworks in the car and he was locked up for a month but eventually freed. even if i tried, i could not make this up. And He is a US citizen as well obviously (ex marine, like i said). He lost his job, and his life. THat's why I am always skeptical about topics which involve two parties now. And I encourage everyone to be so. If you feel comfortable with your decisions, I praise you but if there's any lingering doubt, act upon it with logic and not your emotions and irrationality.
GuitarDaku · Jul 10, 2009 12:08 AM
I am extremely comfortable with our decision. I actually sleep very well at night knowing that he will never be able to do this to anyone else ever again. Please know that no one on the jury thought this trial and this defendant ever put a black mark on the Nepali communities. This is one individual who made bad and disgusting choices and got caught. I have made a comment before that if the Judge feels that we made the wrong decision, he has the power to begin the process of reversing it. He has more information and evidence than we were given. On August 7th, if he feels we were wrong, he can fix it. I dont think for one second that it will happen that way though. I believe from the bottom of my heart that Ajay is going away for a really long time....and the only person I feel bad for is his young child who is completely innocent in this whole thing. Yes, the phone call was a huge deciding factor but it was not everything.
allysma · Jul 10, 2009 12:23 AM
Allysma, I know you definitely do not know Nepali culture. I want to point out that incestal relationship is both illegal and immoral inNepal unlike some of the states in the United States where incestal relationship between adults is not illegal although many people find it disgusting. I know some of the writings are in Nepali and you are not getting the full context at times that may have led you to suspect that incestal relationship may be practiced in Nepal. It is not only immoral but also illegal in Nepal. It is more than disgusting as you have mentioned. I just wanted to clarify if you had any misconception about it. Rest is appreciated, your coming out and defending that poor girl.
purush · Jul 10, 2009 2:04 AM
I would like to clear this whole thing up. I do not believe that these types of relationship are accepted in Nepal. Unfortunately, I do not know much about Nepal, I admit. The only things I know are descriptions I heard during the trial and Mount Everest is there. That is the extent of my knowledge. I do not believe that the actions of this one man are a reflection of life in Nepal. Purush, even in the backwood redneck areas of the US, incest with a minor is illegal. Nowhere in the Country is it legal.
allysma · Jul 10, 2009 10:36 AM
Dear Bob Marley,You have right to express ur uiew but u can't compare this case with GP and SK.Please try to study more before to express view in public forum.Nepali culture also not like as u mentioned and Nepali law also punished if any one guilty but only difference in USA and Nepal is that in Nepal, if u have power and money, u can make decision in ur faver whatever ur crime but not in USA. Bob Marley Wrote, he victim's name, if it is real, should NOT have been revealed here. This can jeopardize the case and you (the one who said it first) can be taken to court. That is so wrong for a Jury to come out and speak publicly about the case.I hope you have the court's permission. Sabaikobabu The reason we defend people is that it is a part of our culture. Sujata Koirala defends her dad Girij, which makes her a good daughter to him. If she were a good person ( with a Western philosophy) she would turn her back and denounce her father. But that makes a bad daughter back in Nepali culture. We'll do anything for loved one even if it involves crime, murder, sin or corruption. It is written in our blood, which is a critical factor how we shape our society and where we are. Ajay's parents are good parents who went so far to defend their son, at least from Nepali's point of view. Our culture would be better off learning those values from the West and stop those corrupt Indian cultural influences.
crackboy · Jul 10, 2009 10:42 AM
Why Ajay did not testify of his crime? was he not allowed or not necessary to testify? Allysma wrote, "The phone call was a big part of the decision but not the whole decision. Keep in mind though that Ajay did not testify. The only words that we heard from him were on that tape and it told us most of what we needed to know to make a decision."
rmny · Jul 10, 2009 11:24 AM
rmny, Ajay was able to take the witness stand as it was his right as a defendant. However, he opted to refuse that route. Why? I have no clue, but my intuition (and the police detective who helped the victim) tells me that Ajay didn't want to be subjected to a position where he would be forced to tell the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." In other words, Ajay chose to keep silent for the duration of the trial, and have his lawyer speak on his behalf. I feel that, if he felt that he were truly innocent, then he would have had nothing to hide by taking the witness stand. I'm assuming that most people would feel this way. However, the jurors were undoubtedly briefed on refraining from taking this frame of mind lest it create a bias.
Issac · Jul 10, 2009 7:17 PM
Last edited: 10-Jul-09 07:18 PM
Issac · Jul 10, 2009 7:18 PM
Any defendant in the US has the right to not testify. The jury cannot use that against them and cannot use the fact that they did not testify in the decision process. Ajay chose (or his lawyer chose) to not testify. It is what it is.....
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 3:29 AM
I find even the remotest possibility of such crimes being true horrifically disgusting, so, for now, as a convicted criminal on such crimes, Ajay Dev has little sympathy from me. I am also dismayed by the fact that the larger Nepali society -- on this case in particular, and on the issues of gender-based crimes such as sexual harassment, rape and domestic violence, in general -- remains complacent at the best, and dismissive at the worst. That said, I also believe that at times -- for whatever reasons -- the justice system is prone to aberrant blunders, and that every guilty has the right to appeal the conviction(s). However, any appeal(s) on behalf of Ajay Dev by his family and friends can be best utilized if they remain focused on presenting them in the (higher) courts, rather than the larger public. I have seen two so far -- one from his parents, and the other from his wife, Peggy. I find the latter particularly intriguing for obvious reasons. I am curious to know what Allysma, in her/his capacity as a juror, would have to say to Peggy's appeal. ******************** An appeal seeking justice against the unfair trial and detention of my husband, Ajay Dev I, Peggy Dev, the wife of Ajay Dev am appealing to you to discover the truth about the unfair trial and conviction of my husband despite all of the evidence presented at trial, which was more than enough to prove his innocence. I am deeply hurt to hear the rumors and lies that have been said about my husband. Therefore, I would like to clarify what happened with facts and the truth. My husband has been detained and is now in custody for the charges the accuser claimed happened six years ago (1999- 2003), and faces life in prison. Sapna, the 26 year old adopted daughter of Ajay and me, claimed that Ajay raped her 550-750 times while living with us in our home. She claimed that Ajay raped her while I was sleeping in the same bed. She claimed she was raped at friends and relatives homes. I, his wife, would have known if he were raping Sapna. He did NOT! We lived in a very small house. She showed no signs of trauma. She was a happy person. We gave her everything she needed—a good education, food, clothing, vacations, cell phone and use of a car. We would not give her permission to live a wild life such as staying out until all hours, drinking and having sex outside of marriage. We wanted her to preserve her Nepali culture and values. She moved out of our home in December 2003. By her moving out and subsequent actions, we disinherited her. Also, Ajay explained to her boyfriend about the Nepali Culture and expectations. After this, the boyfriend broke up with Sapna, and the next day (February 2, 2004) she went to the police very angry alleging that Ajay raped her. In May she requested the charges be dropped and went to Nepal for a visit, where she was found guilty and convicted of passport fraud. She spent 19 days in jail. The only way she could come back to the U.S. was if the case against Ajay was reopened. After contacting the Davis Police Department, she obtained another passport by lying that she had never had a criminal conviction. The Nepal Court still held her fraudulent passport in custody. The Detective Mark Hermann of the Davis Police Department contacted the Mr. Farquhar US Embassy in Nepal and asked them to help Sapna gain entrance to the US because Ajay had been charged, and she was a witness in the case against him. After returning to the US the case against Ajay was reopened. If Ajay were convicted she would then be able to stay in the US legally. Six months after Sapna’s return to the US, the Yolo County Deputy District Attorney Steve Mount charged Ajay, which was in April 2006. It took 3 years to bring to case to trial. During those 3 years if Ajay were guilty he could have fled the US to Nepal. He stayed because he knew he was innocent and believed in the American Justice System. My parents, seven siblings and friends outside and in the Nepali Community have worked hard to collect evidence of his innocence. None of us are stupid or immoral and would not have supported Ajay if he were guilty. Together, we have done research and discovered the Deputy District Attorney has a past track record of unfair trials. At Ajay’s trial the DDA (Deputy District Attorney) misrepresented the evidence to the jury and used emotion and theatrics in his closing arguments. The jury consisted of 9 women and 3 men, 10 who were white. On the basis of the comments of 3 jurors on a blog, I conclude that Ajay would be a free man today if the DDA had not misguided the jury. The jury ignored the testimony of Sapna’s medical doctor, the adoption social worker and medical records, which have Sapna’s own signature stating that she was never raped. The DDA made false charges against Ajay for showing pornography to Sapna. By doing that, he provoked and prejudiced the jury against Ajay, even though he was not convicted on for any pornography. The jury convicted Ajay of dissuading a witness (keeping Sapna in Nepal), but the court did not allow Ajay to bring into evidence the court documents from Nepal, which would have proved his innocence. Sapna lied and submitted altered documents to the court in Nepal, but those were summarily ignored. Sapna lied under oath in Yolo County Court. She forged documents. There were many more instances in the trial which constitute an unfair trial for Ajay. I have only touched on a very small amount of facts in this unfair trial and am pleading to the Attorney General, media and everyone to investigate the trial of Ajay Dev and find the TRUTH of his innocence. Last edited: 11-Jul-09 09:02 AM
Poonte · Jul 11, 2009 8:58 AM
Nevermind! (Ignore the previous msg...posted below)...looks like it worked the last time I editted. *************** hyaaaa! San, Can you correct the WIDE gaps between the paragraphs on Peggy's appeal? I copied and pasted it from an email, and that's how it appeared here -- I tried editing too, but it didn't help. Last edited: 11-Jul-09 09:05 AM Last edited: 11-Jul-09 09:06 AM
Poonte · Jul 11, 2009 9:04 AM
Please bring the wife's name is here. Have some respect!!
Dance Zone · Jul 11, 2009 9:57 AM
Please have some respect for his wife. Donot mention her name here. She is not on trail here. She is one amazing woman whom I respect and love very much. She is very understanding. The accuser could have told her everything if she really was abused. Its wrong to convict him just with the phone conversation. THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT!! And you people will see it. PLEASE LEAVE THE WIFE ALONE!!
Dance Zone · Jul 11, 2009 10:05 AM
I would doubt that Jurors would come here and say anything about appeal filed by Ajay's wife as this will be another court matter where different Juror's would have to go and look at the evidence presented..... In the appeal letter presented above, i did not find anywhere that mentioned about the recorded phone conversation between Ajay and the victim where Ajay admitted having consensual sex not once but twice according to Jurors. Had there not present the recorded phone conversation, Ajay could have been a free man... Regarding forgery case of the victim in Nepal, I am not sure why Ajay's relative needs to report the wrong dob to authority. Forgery case like this in Nepal is debatable and i think it practical in Nepal....... who would commit this kind of forgery through whom is also debatable.....
RmNY · Jul 11, 2009 10:28 AM
Dance Zone, The contents of an appeal from Ajay's wife has been widely circulated in emails and other internet sources, obviously seeking maximum public support. I really don't think Peggy would have started the appeal by mentioning her own identity if she really wished to remain anonymous. Desperation leading to irrationality? (On your part)
Poonte · Jul 11, 2009 10:31 AM
I am not sure where to begin here... 1. His wife never mentions that he admitted to having a sexual relationship in the recorded phone call. 2. She does not mention that the birthdate on the passport issue was brought about from her husband or one of his close family members in Nepal. 3. She got back to the US by doing exactly what the US Embassy told her to do. If she had to lie about something to get back in to the US, she did it. She did what they told her to do and said what they told her to say. 4. As far as the boyfriend breaking upo with her... you need to know that she moved out of the Dev home 2 months before and thought she was free of him. He went and searched out her boyfirends name, address, phone numbers, everything and began contacting him. He harrassed the boyfriend so much that he finally broke up with her to get Ajay away from himself. It was the straw that broke the camels back! 5. The nurse practitioner who saw the victim over the years admitted she never did a pelvic exam on the victim. She also admitted on the stand that rapes are usually not something they find evidence of unless it was a violent rape and there is trauma or damage done. There was none of this. 6. The wife mentions allowing her to stay out late and live a free life (or how ever she puts it). She admitted on the stand that the victim was out past curfew one night and she went and found her. On the way home, the victim was slapped and left with a cut on her face. I had already mentioned that the victims testimony was hard to believe at times and yes, there was a claim of rapes 3-5 times a week for 5 years. He was not charged with that many and was not found guilty of that many. Had it not been for the phone call and other pieces of evidence, he would be free. We only actually used parts of her testimony when other evidence collaborated something she said. (Like the hotel receipts from a hotel a few blocks from his house where she claims an attack. Why woudl a man get a hotel room just a few blocks from his home) I personally see this statement as a way to get her husband more support since obviously the people he had come to court did not do the trick. He is the bread winner in the family and her financial livelyhood is at stake. We will see on August 7th if the Judge agrees with us or not......... Last edited: 11-Jul-09 11:31 AM
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 11:23 AM
Dance Zone is offended that the wifes name was mentioned yet HE is the one posting the victims name everywhere.... Can you say hypocrite?????
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 11:25 AM
Can't wait till August 7th, Allysma, plz keep updating. Why people are partial regarding Ajay's wife name and the victim's name mentioned in this thread? If everything is already in the communication mainstream, it is normal to know who his wife is and who is not?
sajha_addict · Jul 11, 2009 11:45 AM
I find some of the arguments by Allysma fishy. I don't want to go over all the details, and I don't have sympathy for Ajay to spend hours here defending him. But I live in SF Bay Area. The general perception here is that people in Sacramento or central valley have no sympathy for foreigners or people of foreign origins. They are jealous of foreigners who they think are superwealthy and live in bay area. If you want to convict a foreigner, go to those areas. These jurors are also willing to believe anything-- a foreigner , who doesn't believe in their own religion, must be someone decadent. Can he rape his own daughter? Yes, sure why not, he is a damn foreigner, a nonwhite, a Hindoo. Never mind the victim repeatedly lied about it, a phone call is enough to convict someone, so much so that he would spend 70+ years in jails. In other words, the crime committed by Ajay is something in the league of homicide. This man is suddenly deemed so dangerous to the society that he would be better dead (or inside the jail) than outside. Never mind he was out of the jail for six years prior to this conviction. I am surprised the jury didn't decide to hang him, given America's capital punishment rate. Since it costs 50+ thousand dollars per year per inmate in this country, and california is budget constrained, that would have been a better solution if the juries were a bit well educated. (btw, I wonder how educated was the jury. I doubt they have some decent degrees.) I don't come here to defend Ajay. But I find the evidences iffy. "Either Ajay or his relatives" tried to block the girl's reentry in the USA[but we send "ajay" to gallows], "we convicted him on the basis of a phone call" (never mind we don't understand his language and it was through translation), Ajay was behind the breakup in her relationship ("what kind of boyfriend is that? At least, it is the news for me for someone to break up affairs because of adopted father.") and the result: a man would go to jail for 70-250 years for this. There are probabilities alive that this man was too strict a father (like all Madhesi fathers in Nepal), the jurors were too racists to even try to see truth, too biased to believe worst about everything, the girl was too young to understand the consequences of her action on others ( like in that movie, Atonement ). Well, hail America, let's enjoy it as long as we are not in jail. This is where a Nepali always dreams to come in. I think Nepali textbooks should discuss every angle of this case to have a lesson about an entry into a new culture... Last edited: 11-Jul-09 12:48 PM Last edited: 11-Jul-09 12:50 PM
Pire · Jul 11, 2009 12:46 PM
Pire, I am not racist. Had the defendant been white, green, red, orange, or an alien from outer space, we would have had the same verdicts if the evidence was the same. Although, I am not sure how we could have been racist against him but not the victim since she was also from Nepal... The defense had their own translator there and with the exception of one word, he testified the translation was correct. The word in question was "kiss" versus "sex". As far as the educational background of any juror, obviously the defense attorney thought we were intelligent enough to be on that jury. It is idiotic for you to say that we are jealous of foreigners. I have my own education and career.
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 1:39 PM
Pire, you are very wrong to bring up juror as racist and prejudice etc. They did what the American court system supposed to do. Ajay was convicted of multiple counts of charges which apply additional sentences. If you dig the case a little bit you will find that Ajay and his family/relatives went too far which back fired themselves.....
rmny · Jul 11, 2009 2:00 PM
Allysma, I said there are "probabilities alive" (meaning some chance) that jurors were too racist to believe worst about a man with different background. That is the general perception regarding white people living in inland America, and you can talk to any law school professor about it (It is pretty much statistically verified stuff. There is a rich literature about how home courts decide against alien firms/individuals in the USA.) I don't want to be seen defending Ajay--he might be the bastard-- but it is stretching my credulity to believe that a man is sent to jail for 70-250 years for 'one sentence' he made during a phone call (according to you). There is no semen test to prove rape, in fact, no trauma on victim or so I hear. In a lot of civil societies, a phone call, or statement made during the heated conversation, is inadmissible as an evidence. In any case, if you want to send someone to jail for such a long time, you really need something concrete. May be there is this schadenfreude, as Germans say, a satisfaction in "proving" a shocking crime-- you can tell your kids/friends about a man , a foreigner you convicted because he god damn raped his own daughter (oh what a decadent man! but at least he was not our type)-- and it is even better that he happened to be a son of a scientist, and an engineer in state agency. Like all other educated Nepalese, I won't respond to the appeal by Ajay's families. There is no glory in associating yourself with a convict, and I am an egotistical person anyway. There is always a positive probability that Ajay might be what he is convicted of,so why take a risk? I haven't read all testimonies, nor do I have time. I am not like Emilo Zola to take up the case for a convict Dreyfuss. But I see a distinct pattern in American jury system now more than ever, and this is something I will keep in mind: that these people are willing to believe anything said about a Nepali. [PS: Just because a defense lawyer is satisfied doesn't mean it is all right. A significant fraction of people in this country are sentenced to jail or capital punishment partly because their lawyer is too incompetent. I am not familiar with the case or lawyer, and if you want to defend something, please don't make reference to him. I am approaching this case purely from outsider's point of view. Despite its democratic nature, jury system is not without flaw, composition of jury matters a lot and it is reasonable to start with that assumption, no?] Last edited: 11-Jul-09 02:48 PM Last edited: 11-Jul-09 03:09 PM
Pire · Jul 11, 2009 2:43 PM
First they try to rape the character of already raped victim, and then disclose the name of the victim, and then say "respect" and please do not disclose the name of rapist's wife, who already disclosed her name publicly by her emails as stated above, and they bring the race factors; questions the educational background of jurors, and bring the jealousy as the influencing factors. Please go on as much as you can with all your cunningness that you've gathered through your education. Please go on to show more of your true colors.
lakhe · Jul 11, 2009 2:48 PM
Lakhe, First of all, I wouldn't disclose the name of the victim. I was shocked that the girl's name was published. That is inexcusable. Now, let's talk fact. What is wrong in questioning education? I am also questioning other stuffs. Look, I knew a Nepali in in-land : he was arrested after he perused objectionable website. Arresting him is fine, but what shocked me was the university immediately fired him. Now, I thought they would wait until proven guilty. Shouldn't they? It showed to me that foreigners , in some cases, dont' get benefit of doubt. And it is hard for us to support that guy. Which Nepali would want to support a guy caught watching porno? So, sure there are stuffs in American jury systems that are prone to bias. Questioning a rationale behind the decision reached by a group of jurors and speculating the motive behind it in a website shouldn't constitute a crime,should it? It is just an inquiry; the answer for it is voluntary. We are not in an era where we can inquestionably lynch people due to our suspicion. To me, it is a good sign that a juror is willing to discuss her decision process in this case here; this shows she is confident about how she arrived in a decision. However, to be 'confident' is different from to be 'right', and I am just trying to see her mind, and her decision process. Just relax, and stop whining, and act like a mature person. What transpire here today can be useful to alot of others in future. Last edited: 11-Jul-09 03:01 PM
Pire · Jul 11, 2009 2:55 PM
Just because some people were biased against minorities some time does not mean that all the people will be biased against them all the time. It's not me who started whining about race, jealousy and what not as a possibility and a biasness from jurors; please stop seeing everyone as your reflection. In this case, the justice is also being served to the minority. I don't believe at all that jurors were "racist" as you're accusing them. There was a hung jury and votes were split, and jurors didn't completely buy the story from the beginning. That's what jurors mentioned. The dramatic change came only after this one sentence with the rapist having sex with his adopted daughter.
lakhe · Jul 11, 2009 3:13 PM
Lakhe, First of all, I have to clarify that I don't even know this guy Ajay, and wouldn't have written a single word if he had been sent to jail for 15 years or so. It is the length of sentence that aroused curiosity in me. I am approaching it from purely blank: I know American jury system has flaws, I know that in America justice is often skewed against people of different background, and American jail system is overcrowded (five time more people per capita are inmates here than in the rest of the world). Overzealous jury, residual bitterness against successful and wealthy foreigners is a fact here and even in other countries. America is a transforming country: it is trying to be civilized, it is trying to a cosmopolitan country which can be an example for the rest of the world--but at the same time, America has a brutal past. 19 million out of 20 million Native Indians were killed and their land grabbed, but American media used to portray these same Red Indians as villains until very late. (see Hollywood westerns). Lynching was rampant in America, Chinese , who were shanghaied from China to be slave were treated shabbily, denied rights and until recently, say in 1992 in black riot in LA, race relations have been poor. It is reflected everywhere, and more so in a jury that is randomly drawn from the population. But to be fair to this country, every country has blood in its history, and all of us are trying to improve. It is out of my curiosity about American system that I am forced to ask: what was the process of deliberation and decision making that made a jury send a man to jail for 70 ~250 years? Look, society doesn't change over night--as Latin saying goes, natura non facit saltum (nature doesn't make a jump)-- and one can't automatically accept lack of racism as an established truth. Rather, it might be wise to approach any (jury based) decision making as a process that is influenced by the thoughts of people of different background, each with their own view, reaching a decision that is a function of their background, the evidence they saw, and their ability to process the informations they have. As an aspiring lawyer living in Bay Area, I now have a passing interest in this case and hence this inquiry. "Just because some people were biased against minorities some time does not mean that all the people will be biased against them all the time" Lakhe, how do you know this is not the time? I am just curious. As far as I am concerned, it could be the exact time when a bias is occured. "I don't believe at all that jurors were "racist" as you're accusing them" I am glad you believe that way. I didn't accuse them of being racist, I said there is positive probability that they are racist. Now, it is not a definite sentence, but a man is a package of lots of emotions. It is said by psychologists that our thoughts are parliament within, and they swing; sometimes some emotions win, say our quest for fairness wins, sometimes other emotions win; the same man can be fair at a time and racist at another time. Since we are locking up a man for the rest of his life, it is only fair for us to make sure that we are certain that the crime is committed beyond doubt. That fair , clean, rational minds were gathered to deliver the justice. "The dramatic change came only after this one sentence with the rapist having sex with his adopted daughter" This is where I am surprised. No evidence, but one sentence said in a heated conversation established beyond doubt that a man deserves to be in jail. And that sentence was about "consent", right? Is this the whole proof behind this lengthy sentencing? I hope justice has been served; it always feels good to believe that truth prevails in the world and Ajay got what he deserved. But what is wrong in finding out how jurors thought, especially when the juror here is so keen to share her views?
Pire · Jul 11, 2009 4:14 PM
gaaule ho, kati mukha-mukh garchhau? jati baajhe pani hune kuro bhaihaalchha jasari ni. lets just hope that justice will be served, in total fairness.
bhikhaari · Jul 11, 2009 4:18 PM
Pire I just want to clarify that we as a jury have NOTHING to do with the sentence. We are not told what the punishment may be and we are told to not even thin kabot the punishment while deliberating. I did not fond out what the sentence may be until I read the article in the newspaper. I have since learned that there are other panels (correctional personnel, the lawyers from both sides, and the Judge) who actually determine what the punishment will be. This has yet to be determined and will be made known on August 7th. I will again find out from the newspaper what the punishment will be. We then of course have the appeal process where the defense attorney will appeal the decision and a Judge (same one or different, I have no idea) will look at everything and decide if everything is correct or wrong. As I have mentioned multiple times before, if Judge Fall decides that we were wrong and he disagrees with our verdicts, he can begin the process to reverse it. I know that he has much more evidence than we saw or heard so it will be up to him ultimately... I doubt it will happen, but we will see....
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 4:31 PM
Thanks Allysma. I see the status better now. I am sure you did your job fairly--your willingness to talk about the case and defend it here says that much. As we Hindus say-- as long as your conscience is clear, even if you are wrong, you didn't sin. One thing strikes me about this case: perhaps the girl was vengeful because her boyfriend left her ("wrath of scorned girl" --as they say--is unlimited) and she attributed the breakup to Ajay since he strongly objected to her unrestrained lifestyle like any conservative Hindu father does, even though the boy likely left her because he didn't like her. The fact that she was lying most of the time in the court, about abortions and so on (if I understand correctly) should have been heavily weighted against her. She seems instable: but was her instability due to being repeatedly molested by her father? If yes, then, Ajay deserved what he got; if no, then jurors has a lifetime to regret about sending a protective father to jail for the rest of his life.
Pire · Jul 11, 2009 4:44 PM
It appears that some people here needs to see a VIDEO tape of them having sex in order to believe the truth. If your daughter accused you of having sex with you, what will be the first word coming out of your mouth? And the 2 language being spoken showing 2 different story, it is obvious that Ajay was hiding something, maybe accepting subconsciously about the relationship. Your mouth can lie, but your consciousness and your brain never lies, it is not a rocket science. Had he NOT done it, there will be a different emotion. If you expect that jurors should have made the decision only if they had seen it through their eyes, there will never be and end to the this. I think the "beyond reasonable doubt" was already there, even in the smallest form of human emotion. Things cannot be solved all the time like in the CSI episode. Why did he had to hide the situation during the phone conversation to his wife? But there is definitely more questions as more information are poppin out. The victim claims that A raped her 550-750 times. Allysma, is this the right number that was presented to the court? That seems very high- what exactly was Peggy doing, was she blind? I would imagine few time a year for a married man with his wife at the same house. If you believe that number is possible, then you need to look into Ajay's relationship with Peggy. Are they even married, living together? There are lots of unanswered questions listening to the supporters from both the sides as posted here. Please stop with the racism....you are not making your points any better.
Bob Marley · Jul 11, 2009 4:59 PM
Pire The break up with the boyfriend was the final nail. She had moved away from him and thought she was free. He hunted down the boyfriend and began emailing, calling, and texting him until the boyfriend had enough and basically decided he wanted nothing to do with her or her family. Ajay had NEVER met this boy in person. She never lied about the abortions. She admitted to having them. During the infamous phone call when she brought up the fact that she had not disclosed to her counselor that Ajay was the father, he never adnitted or denied being the father. If your daughter even mentioned you were the father of her children and you knew you weren't, wouldn't you automatically deny it? He was not found guilty of the pregnancies (1 was not guilty and 1 was a hung jury). Please remember that the court trial was 5-10 years after the abuse began. Some of us actually thought she was lying through a lot of the testimony. It was not until later when we realized that her time frames were really messed up and the details were just not as clear as we would hope. Come to find out, many things that we thought she lied about there was evidence it had happened. For example: she claimed to be raped at a local motel in a certain month, come to find out, there were receipts from that exact motel only in a different month than she remembered with Ajay's name and signature on them. The motel was only a few blocks from their home so why check in? It was apparent to us that she was embarrassed about having to talk about sexual things in a room full of strangers staring at her and she was extremely nervous. Due to the time frame, she had also forgetten many details. The comments in the phone call were anything but "heat of the moment". This was a 45 minute call where he goes back and forth telling her to go the police and then telling her not to go to the police...
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 5:08 PM
It was claimed 2 to 3 times a week and always when the wife was away. She had a job that she left very early in the morning and that was when most of them happened. He was not charged with 500-750 counts. If I remember the actual numbers correctly, it was 20 or 25 counts of actual rape and then there were the charges of rape against a minor, and 20-25 counts of another sexual assault. There were counts of attempting to dissuade a witness. He was actually charged with 94 counts. he was found guilty of 76 counts, not guilty on 13, and hung on 5. Basically, the way they were done, he was charged with the same set of crimes per time frame (3-6 months). In the end, we believed that it was possible for him to rape her 4-5 times a year for 5 years.
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 5:20 PM
Allysma, Is Ajay getting charged with a RAPE or with the Incestuous Relationship with his daughter? Like Bob Marley pointed out, The expression from the father should be " What the fk are you talking about" as soon as the daughter was talking about having sex. This does validate that there indeed was a sexual relationship. Did the Jury ever analyze the scenario where Ajay and his daughter could have had consensual relationship the whole time until the boyfriend breakup situation came up, and thus the sour relationship turning into a RAPE situation??? As we dig more into this, i am getting an odor of a consensual sex turning into RAPE accusations. Sid Last edited: 11-Jul-09 05:27 PM
sidster · Jul 11, 2009 5:24 PM
Pire, Ajay has been living in this country since he was 13 and is married to Peggy (a white women if I'm not wrong), what exactly do you think he will have "conservative Hindu" father inside of him?
Bob Marley · Jul 11, 2009 5:31 PM
Sidster, we did look into that scenario. Problem being, even if it was consensual, sex with a minor is still illegal. Based on the evidence, we did not find that it was consensual at any time. He was charged with rape and rape of a minor until her 18th birthday. After that, it was just rape charges and sexual assault charges and the minor issue was out of the picture.
allysma · Jul 11, 2009 5:45 PM
I would have to agree that the crime of sex with a minor is clear as water in Ajay's case from that taped phone call alone. But it does create a doubt whether it was a RAPE or not. After reading all those comments it is clear that there was sex between the two but its not clear whether it was Rape or not. I hope the judge looks into this before he decides on 70 - 250 years of prison. It would only be fair to be punished for the crime committed and not the fabricated ones. Sid
sidster · Jul 11, 2009 5:56 PM
Sidster, If you could see how devastated the victim was over the whole situation, if you could see how hard she cried, and how humiliated and exposed she felt... She is utterly incapable of lying or manipulating another person, and even after Ajay's conviction, she felt terrible that a son would most likely have to grow up knowing that his father was a convicted rapist. Even though she knew that the well-being of the child was not her responsibility but rather that of his irresponsible parents, she still worried about him. If anything, her reaction showed that she, despite the horrible things her adoptive father put her through, is a very compassionate person. Throughout the trial, she never had anything bad to say about Ajay or Peggy, or even their families, even though they caused her so much suffering. Multiple times, many of her friends (myself, included), voiced our opinions about Ajay. We all thought that he deserved to rot in hell for all eternity, and we called him every terrible name in the English language we could possibly think of... But, not the victim. The only thing she ever said was something along the lines of, "I'm relieved that I got justice for the horrible things that he did to me, but I don't take pleasure from it. Both of our families were destroyed by what he did." The sad truth with many rape victims is that they feel like they could have prevented the attacks if they had done something different, if they had covered themselves up literally with clothing from head to toe, or if they'd been a better person. They feel like they were punished for something that they did wrong, and yet, they can't figure out what their transgression was. Could you imagine feeling this way? The fact that this victim has a hard time blaming anyone but herself is a classic sign that she, indeed, has been raped. It also says something about extremely patriarchal societies where women are seen as nothing more than chattel. I am not here to debate the intricacies of racism, but it is a very well-known fact that, in many Asian cultures (especially in the rural areas of countries such as Nepal), women are seen as little more than farm animals--completely utilitarian baby-making machines with no real capacity for intelligent thoughts. Again, I'm not creating a bias in saying this. I know that some form of this male chauvinistic thinking exists even here in America, among Caucasian males, but it seems more prevalent in countries who perpetuate the need for said patriarchal communities. I firmly believe that the lesson to be taken from this tragic story is to take in as much information as humanly possible. Start with the facts, and only the facts, and refrain from jumping to conclusions, assumptions, or emotions. Perhaps if many of Ajay's supporters had read up on the behaviors and emotions of rape victims, they would have been a little more cognizant of what was going on right under their noses.
Issac · Jul 11, 2009 8:19 PM
Incestuous sex (haad-naataako karani) is one of the major crimes in Nepal, and so if this man slept with his daughter, then it is a very sick story. 18 or not. All I am asking is if there is a definitive proof of this. The more heinous a crime a man is convicted of, the more concrete a proof is require to do so. Regarding rape: I am surprised that there are some rapes that seemed to have occured after she was 18. I wonder why she didn't report them as soon as it happened? To say that repeated rape couldnot be the last straw but a break up with the boyfriend was doesn't sound cogent to me. Allysma, you also give me an impression that you are not sure how much time he is being asked to serve. I am surprised that the jurors didn't know the consequence of their action (decision). Bigger question is: would you think 160 years in prison (a mean between floated numbers, 70 and 250) is fair for this guy? Given Madoff, who ruined so many hospitals/retirees and destroyed a system, was given 150. What is exactly the goal of a jail system? To reform a man so that he won't be a threat to the society when he comes back or let him rot there forever so that he never comes back? Are jurors setting precedence or do they have precedence for such crime and punishment?
pire · Jul 11, 2009 8:31 PM
Isaac, ".. in many Asian cultures (especially in the rural areas of countries such as Nepal), women are seen as little more than farm animals--completely utilitarian baby-making machines with no real capacity for intelligent thoughts." In Nepal, women are treated badly, no defending that, but it has been like that in all societies including American and European. I wonder how many women in American Deep South work now (most of them I met were not working)? When Andrew Jackson asked for equality among all , he was asking for white men--not women, not black male-- and it has been somewhat like that until very recently . But societies are transforming, and currently, Nepal has more women parliamentarians than the USA. In Nepal--women are actually worshipped too, no? You can't even kill female animal. I have been struck by the narration of war during Nepal's unification era: Nepali soldiers never killed women or cows or a child according to a report and in fact, they prided in defending them. when Moslems attacked India, they raped women discriminately and targetted children born from them for conversion. When Christians invaded USA, they killed women and children of Red Indians. Women were not spared in notorious holocaust. White women never had it easy; they were accused of being witches and burnt in Europe and America. They started to get jobs only after labor shortage of industrial societies, and even now, their is wage differential. So all societies have their bias against women. If you think Asians can be particularly viewed as such, perhaps you need to disabuse yourself.
pire · Jul 11, 2009 8:44 PM
Issac, Thank You...for being honest. Pire, Where are you going?
Bob Marley · Jul 11, 2009 9:07 PM
Isaac, ".. in many Asian cultures (especially in the rural areas of countries such as Nepal), women are seen as little more than farm animals--completely utilitarian baby-making machines with no real capacity for intelligent thoughts." I hope you were not in the Jury. I can see where someone with this kind of prejudice in their head can sway their vote to. I am sure if it was a white male on trial you would not have had this prejudice in your head. I am not saying who is innocent or guilty here but shame on your hypocritical comment on Asian society and culture. You know India had a female head of the Nation about 35 years ago and your precious USA is almost 40 years away from electing a female head of the state. Yes women have more liberty here but also more women are punched in the face here more than anywhere else. Ajay, came to this country when was 13, he is more American than anything else, do not dare to push him towards the Asian culture, He is your alike. Only Nepali on him is the color of his skin and his association to Nepalese Community Organization. You are one narrow minded frog in a well. All you know is the well you are in and nothing more. If Ajay had won a gold medal for you, you would have proudly called him American. Accept it, he is an American just like you are. Talk about what he should be punished for regardless of his culture and background. Sid
sidster · Jul 11, 2009 9:57 PM
Pire, if you had bothered to read my comment thoroughly, you would have noticed that I brought up the fact that such negative beliefs concerning women exist even here in America, even by Caucasian individuals. Like I said before, I am not here to extol the virtues of one culture by defaming another. I am simply stating the facts. And the simple fact is that, in a lot of Asian countries, women are not held in high esteem within these patriarchal societies, and they do not have the legal protections that we have here in the U.S. Too often, we hear horror stories of women beaten to death, sold into prostitution, or raped repeatedly with the transgressor never being punished. Here in America, we do not have as many of these travesties, and those that do occur are not covered up. It is true that our legal system is not friendly to those who file rape cases. Have you seen the statistics for how many rape cases actually go to trial? How about how many individuals guilty of rape actually are incarcerated? You can then imagine how amazing it is that this particular rape case concerning my friend 1.) had its day in court, and 2.) resulted in the rapist going to jail. It is true that some cultures refrain from harming women and children during warfare, and we should commend those who uphold those standards. However, there are plenty of people regardless of their cultural background who disregard the standards that they were raised with, and kill whomever is in their path. You must realize, however, that we are digressing by bringing this up.
Issac · Jul 11, 2009 10:22 PM
Oh, and FYI, I'm of Asian descent. But, thank you for jumping to assumptions... Clearly my message about sticking to the facts went unnoticed.
Issac · Jul 11, 2009 10:26 PM
Isaac, If you think Caucasians are not any better than Asian, then there is no point in pointing finger at Asian societies, and trying to make this farcical differentiation. Asia, btw, is big enough to have a spectrum of attitude towards female--look at Moslems, Chinese and Us and you know what I mean. So your statement was either a tautology or plainly meaningless. Sure, it is easy to file a rape case here, but we don't have wage differentiation in Nepal, and female college graduates are more than half of a graduating class in China. And of course, our recent 33% female parliamentarian provision in Nepal makes us ahead of America in granting rights to women. But these are not excuse for status quo-- If I have my way, I will definitely work for more power for women. What bothered me about your statement is its vacuousness or its attempt to make comparison that is plainly wrong. Now, your statement about victim's emotions during the court trial made me sympathize with the victim. But at the same time, dont' get me wrong here, precisely because some of us were not there at the time and were spared histrionics of court proceeding, we can see clearly as we can have the perspective from distance. I don't want to be bothered by how Peggy cried, how Ajay asserted his innocence or how Ajay's father begged for mercy or so on (they may or may not have done). Let's see if justice is done. Were there facts? Is the sentence condign? And so on. I was shocked by one fact: that the jury sentenced this man on the basis of one statement as someone said earlier (otherwise it would have been a hung jury, according to him/her), and that rape was proved without any concrete evidence and a man was sent to jail for several lifetimes in absence of concrete evidence. But this is such a sick story from the beginning-a father forcing himself upon his daughter-that I don't think any of us would really want to expose ourselves trying to save the guy. It is the benefit of unanimity and the presence of one of the jurors in this forum that has provided us an opportunity to peer into decision making process of American court system.
pire · Jul 12, 2009 12:34 AM
Sidster ley hasayo, "I am not saying who is innocent or guilty here but shame on your hypocritical comment on Asian society and culture. You know India had a female head of the Nation about 35 years ago and your precious USA is almost 40 years away from electing a female head of the state. Yes women have more liberty here but also more women are punched in the face here more than anywhere else." ammai nee.. Sidster..you are full of shit. So what, if India had a female prime minister about 35 years ago, they still burn women for dowry. Dude, accept the fact that women are treated like shit in countries like Nepal and India. Or could be.. you have never gone out of Kathmandu valley to realize how bad women are treated in rural areas.
Av · Jul 12, 2009 3:04 AM
Av, If you want to argue on women rights on USA vs Nepal, please create another thread and i will fully express my views there. Yes there are cases of women getting burnt down for dowry, witches, and other stupidity. Those things are all over the world. When things turn downhill women, children, and other vulnerables are the ones to suffer. Yes in Asian and African countries it appears that women and children are suffering more but along with women and children other weaker men are suffering as well. We saw the same thing happening here in " New Orleans" . We saw how long it took for a 200 years civilization to disappear with one storm. If you haven't noticed, RIGHTS only works when the stomach is FULL. In countries with less FOOD there is less RIGHTS for all of its country men. It happens that Stronger Men claim more rights than weaker men, women, and children. And yes i have traveled to rural Nepal. And yes i have seen wife beaters in Nepal, but majority of women ruled their houses and their men, some rural woman even beat their husbands with a log "Daura". But my argument is not about women right. I have an issue with the American who takes a shelter of a Nepali Stereotype to punish an American. Sid Last edited: 12-Jul-09 08:02 AM
sidster · Jul 12, 2009 7:51 AM
Sid, You still refuse to acknowledge that this man is harbored under a Nepali community, and that the household that he grew up in was fully Nepali. Just because someone comes to America, takes our citizenship tests, and passes does not mean that he sheds his background, or that his family refuses the culture that they grew up with. He is, underneath the American facade, a Nepali man. It is shameful that he has put a black mark on your culture simply because of his association with one Nepali community. I believe that we all acknowledge that his transgressions do not define the Nepali culture as a whole. This man was raised in a traditional Nepali household--he was the eldest son in his family, and was treated like a prince. His parents doted on him and gave him whatever he wished. Perhaps they created a monster when they gave in to his every whim and fancy, but we don't know for sure and so should not blame the parents (although, my impression of them has always been that they're disdainful, arrogant, individuals, and that the mother was psychotic and threatened to kill the victim on multiple occasions). What we do know is that he has an overwhelming sense of entitlement to everything and everyone. His behavior has shown us this much. It is a shame that he is associated with Nepal in any way, especially since I have learned from the victim how beautiful the culture is, and how delicious the food is! Going back to this whole new issue of womens rights in one country vs. another... It is well-documented in multiple history books that women of Muslim, Chinese, and even European cultures have all felt the heavy hand of oppression. Pire is correct in saying that there is a wide spectrum in how women are treated across the continent of Asia, but we are talking solely about the instances of abuse due to the presence of extremely patriarchal societies. In Muslim countries, women are expected to walk X number of steps behind their husband in order to show respect to said husbands, and "honor" killings are perfectly acceptable. In China, female infants were either killed or sent to orphanages because families felt that they were useless and sometimes even shameful. U.S. females have also had their share of unfair treatment, but we have never condoned violence toward women for any reason. It is sad that it does happen (in redneck parts of town as much as in cities with much affluence), but again, such behaviors are utterly unacceptable. However, it seems as though most countries are moving further and further away from these archaic ideals, and I, as a female, could not be happier. My contention with the Nepali culture lies in the fact that it is a culture built upon the design of the Hindu patriarchal system. I have no qualms with Hinduism, but any culture that believes that men should be at the forefront of anything and everything important gives me a very uneasy feeling to my stomach, especially since these ideals can always be used to take advantage of the powerlessness of females. In fact, my contention lies with any patriarchal society, which is a hard thing to deal with, especially considering that so many cultures are shaped around the man as the head of the household. Once we remove this aspect from our cultures, we will have a more impartial environment, regardless of our sex. P.S. Please make sure you know exactly where I'm coming from before you decide to attack me with meaningless phrases.
Issac · Jul 12, 2009 11:57 AM
Pire, I am curious to know what your take is on this news article that I came upon... http://www.amnesty.org.au/news... I know nothing of the goings on in Nepal, so perhaps you could shed some light on why womens rights activists are trying to be silenced despite your claims that women have all the rights they need? Last edited: 12-Jul-09 12:13 PM
Issac · Jul 12, 2009 12:02 PM
Isaac, You seriously need to do more study before you call Nepali culture a Hindu patriarchal system. I was born as a Hindu but i have switched my religion to the new religion called LOGIC once i hit the age of reasoning. Hindu religion has nothing to do with the the patriarchal system that is seen in Nepal. I know Hindu religion has sometimes referred Men as the Gods for the women to worship for but the religion also has referred women, children, plants, animals, rocks, water, air and bunch of other things as gods for others to worship. I lived in Nepal long enough and did not encounter one father who saw their daughter as a farm animal just for the purpose of baby making machine. The idea of incest was born in the WEST, so as sex with animals and objects. And do more research, out of all the religions out there you will see that Hinduism is the religion that respects women the most than anyone else. Only in Hinduism the goddess of wisdom, power, wealth is a female. You are connecting the misery and chaos brought by poverty and lack of information with Women Rights. Shame on you if this was your basis for your verdict. ".. in many Asian cultures (especially in the rural areas of countries such as Nepal), women are seen as little more than farm animals--completely utilitarian baby-making machines with no real capacity for intelligent thoughts."
sidster · Jul 12, 2009 12:23 PM
"My contention with the Nepali culture lies in the fact that it is a culture built upon the design of the Hindu patriarchal system..." Isaac, I am shocked. Now, don't tell me you were in jury. This is exactly what I thought juries thought about..the Hindu, the Hindu culture, that must be bad and it might have influenced their decision. Hindus don't condone violence on women. I always find them comparatively ahead of others (only 60 years ago, warriors of certain religion in Europe burnt women and children , who believed in another religion, alive in holocaust something you would not find in Nepal). Violence on women are universal. Bias on them are universal, but Nepal may be inching well ahead of America by now. Look, we know how bad it is in certain part of America. Sometimes ago, a girl hit my car when I was driving my way from Houston to Austin. She didn't have a license because she was only 15. She begged that I shouldn't tell it to her brother-in-law -- she was already married. I felt so bad at the time. It was a small dent and I didn't report to police. Marriage at the small age, domestic violence, lack of enough female students at good colleges, less wage than their male colleagues, no political representation at all at the highest level, forceful enslavement and forced sexual labor are as much an American story as it is Nepali story. Just like Moslem women protect the burqa system when talking with us, American women too want to feel they are in good shape. As Emma Goldman, an eminent American women activist would have said, American women need to first look at their position in their own home before practicing complacency. After all, let's remember, How many years after the male got their voting rights did women here got the voting rights?
pire · Jul 12, 2009 12:31 PM
Issac: why Hindu patriarchal system? Isn’t what you have stated true more of the Brahminical view of the world, with its own twisted interpretation of Hinduism, which represents the Brahmin male not only as the highest form of existence, but also the umbilical cord to the divine? Surely being mullahed once is enough for anyone.
Syangjali Magar · Jul 12, 2009 12:36 PM
Isaac, So what is nepali culture again? That it is patriarchal, you say. What does that exactly mean? That every family is headed by a man? or that most families are headed by men? you make a very sweeping generalization and I get a feeling you are basically saying that males hold all the power and the implication is pointedly that all nepali families and the culture itself is patriarchal. Go to an average muslim country and you will see women clad from head to toe, where they are not even allowed to show anything or voice anything. Go to nepal, you will not see this. as a matter of fact, ppl will be shocked if that were to occur. I feel there's a warp between your reality and the true reality. When does having a certain race, make you that much more understanding. Someone could be white and understand your asian heritage better than you! Or understand even our nepali culture better but unless you have seen and experienced it themselves, reading about it on paper and Wikipedia (which I am sure you have already done or some form of it) doesn't count to much. It has to be shown that you understand it better. You cannot claim this yourself and expect anyone to just go along with that idea. There were cases of "sati" before but that's been illegal for a hundred and more years. Also, going about this case as a sort of Women's liberation movement is wrong. What is the crime? What is the punishment? Did the crime really occur? Lay down the verdict if it occurred. The people involved could be two guys, two girls, guy and girl, girl and guy, asian, american, south asian, african, european and any other combination. Trying to look back at history and using your pseudo-intellect to understand an issue (without leaving any doubt too) is not anyone's job in this case. we are not writing a sociology paper here. the job is to get a better picture of the Crime itself and the evidence and decide. We have a saying in nepali "goo lai dherai chalaayo bhane, chhitta oodchha" >>>"if you poke s*** around, it gets all over you" and i am getting that feeling talking about this case. On hindsight, maybe we should have just left it alone and just accepted the judge's decision. For who is this guy? I don't know him nor want to have anything to do with him now (even if he's innocent in this case). There is no smoke without some fire definitely. I suppose most of us are babbling here just to see if justice has been served fairly. Oh well, time to get a nice shower and rub s*** off. Peace. Last edited: 12-Jul-09 12:55 PM
GuitarDaku · Jul 12, 2009 12:39 PM
I want people to read this news: http://www.nepalnews.com/main/... and compare 70-250 years sentence to Ajay. (I understand that the verdict of jury means Ajay may get 70-250 years in jail, but judge decides about it.) Here are my thoughts: 1. Which crime is more severe? Can we even compare crimes? 2. Is UK soft on crime or is US tough on crime? Is US now a safer place? What is the fundamental difference in UK and USA that results in such a difference in crime? Would american jury member who sat on Ajay's jury have given similar sentence to those men in that crime? 3. Why is there are about 700 per 1 00 000 people in jail in USA while 100+ in the rest of the world? Are americans more criminals? Are american juries tougher?
pire · Jul 12, 2009 12:48 PM
Again, I asked the readers to READ what I wrote CAREFULLY. My problem is NOT with Hinduism, but rather with the PATRIARCHAL ASPECTS OF HINDUISM--THE PATRIARCHAL ASPECTS IN MANY CULTURES AROUND THE WORLD. Nepal is inching along with the rest of the world when it comes to equality for all, especially womens rights. Where are your facts, your data, your statistics, Pire?? You forget to mention that, despite our President being a male, we work under a democracy, where everyone regardless of color, creed, or sex is allowed to vote. We CHOSE our President, not because he's a man, or because he's Black, but because we felt that he is what our country needs--a fresh mind with a progressive attitude. Hilary Clinton wasn't too far behind in the primary election, and yet she still has one of the most powerful positions in our nation. I would say that this is pretty darn progressive. Do you mean to tell me, Sidster, that the Nepali culture does not work under a patriarchal society? That the term most scholars would use to describe Nepal is "egalitarian"? Because, all the textbooks that I've looked at, and Womens and Gender Studies students I've talked to, and Nepali people I've conversed with have told me otherwise. Good for you to have chosen a novel way of thinking, but you can't change the underlying foundation of a hundreds-year-old civilization with some New-Age ideals. And Pire, I never said that Hinduism condones violence on women. I merely stated the fact that, in patriarchal societies, there is a grave disparity between the rights of the patriarch (male) and the females who live under the law of the land. This PATRIARCHAL IDEAL is what causes the oppression of women, and NOT HINDUISM. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY AND COMPREHEND WHAT I AM SAYING. And as for the Brahminical view... Doesn't the Nepali culture believe in a hierarchical caste, one where the Dalits are the lowest of the low, and are treated very poorly? I don't know that I would want to be a part of this way of thinking... And, no, I was not one of the jurors, so please stop asking. I know the victim of the case too well to be one of the jurors. I thought that you would have picked up on that immediately when I said that I was a friend of hers. Jurors who have any knowledge of the case that they are being selected for are not allowed to be a part of the panel. Perhaps you would have known this if you knew more about America and the way our judicial system works. As for deviance in societies--this did not come out of the "West," as you put it, but out of every culture, every country there is in this world. There are individuals, such as Ajay, who refuse to acknowledge morals and ethics set down by a greater population, whether it be from some mental disability or psychological problem. This is not cultural in nature, but rather simple deviance--almost in the way we see mutations along an evolutionary trail. I am not bashing the Nepali culture or the country, but I am bashing the patriarchal system that has been engrained in this civilization and many others for ages.
Issac · Jul 12, 2009 12:57 PM
I totally agree with you, Guitardaku. I started posting yesterday. To be fair to this Isaac, I also have bias, bias against white christians living in central california or other valleys: I think they treat their women shabbily, I think they are ignorant about other cultures, they are racist and missionaries type, they are excited to go to war and that they don't go to good schools for college (and they are so unsafe about themselves, they are so suspicious of their neighbors that they keep gun at home all the time). Women there want to marry too early , and get devastated if they don't before college. I have these ideas because I haven't been there, haven't mixed up with people, and that's what I hear in bay area. Like you said, there is no way I would associate myself with Ajay when he comes out of jail. If it was even 30 years , I would have assumed the guy would come out at 70+, unable to impose on any girl at the time, and would not have worried about it too. But 70-250 years? Without any "concrete" proof of rape? Based on one sentence he said during a conversation? That's all I care.
pire · Jul 12, 2009 12:59 PM
Scratch what I've written concerning the Brahminical view. I know that many people no longer believe in this, and this sentence does not convey my stand on the matter.
Issac · Jul 12, 2009 1:01 PM
Oh, and I'm agnostic, half-Korean, and half-Spanish, so stop trying to insinuate that I'm some evil White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (aka WASP). I'm also a female.
Issac · Jul 12, 2009 1:04 PM
Pire, When you first wrote doubting the verdicts made by Juries in this country, i thought you were insane. But as Isaac jumped into this conversation i am willing to think again on your writing. Imagine Jury filled with Isaac alike who are set with the crappy prejudgment in their head. I doubt if there was any discussion on whether there it was a RAPE or not. It is clear that there indeed was incestuous relationship between the father and the daughter but the accusation of RAPE is doubtful. Is it really logical to think that there was a RAPE in a motel near the house. Why would the victim show up at the motel alone if she was getting raped by the suspect before as well? Was she thinking she was not going to get raped that one time???? Your questions on the level of punishment for the crime in this country should be another discussion. I believe each country has a right to justify punishment in their own standards but your points does raise a valid questions as how effective the Jury was for the verdict when the ranges for Consensual sex to Rape is 100 years apart. Sid
sidster · Jul 12, 2009 1:07 PM
Pire, if you read earlier comments from the jurors from this trial, you would have seen that there was A LOT of evidence that convinced the jury. Only ONE of the pivotal points was the ENTIRE conversation with the victim. Why don't YOU do a little research? Or better yet, ask one of the jurors as I'm sure he/she has been following this thread closely.
Issac · Jul 12, 2009 1:07 PM
Isaac, Almost all societies, most definitely American societies, are patriarchal societies. I dont think what you are writing makes sense at all. You are just a biased person, and the sooner you disabuse yourself from these wrong views, the better it will be for you. Should we talk about Dalit now? Is this the right place? Ok, Our country has caste system, and we are ashamed of that. We have a constitution that doesn't recognize it. Societies have transformed however. Hindu priests have waged campaigned against it throughout millenium. A Hindu brahmin reformist priest (famous pundit Pokhrel) was killed a few years ago by Maoists because he was popularizing the religion and reforming it too. but Think about it, in Americna south, blacks--who also are christians-- were treated so badly even though they were christians, they were lynched, barbequed, their head kept at stake, asked to go to separate church and schools. To treat fellow christians that way, is not that a caste system at its worst? White Christians still don't befriend blacks, they avoid them, get furious if their women go with them. White males in redneck areas don't like women who marry people of other background and tend to hold bias against them. And jury system? Look at OJ Simpson case: when whites were in majority, he lost, and when blacks were majority, he won--isn't that what happened? So much for a faith in jury system. Last edited: 12-Jul-09 01:15 PM Last edited: 12-Jul-09 01:32 PM
pire · Jul 12, 2009 1:13 PM
Woow...what has this thread come to, women's right? After the death of Benejir Bhutto in Pakistan, the power was literally given to her teenage son. In those parts of the world, anything is possible. All you need is a powerful name with a legacy like "Bhutto" and "Gandhi". Let us not go too far, do you think our Girija's grand son/daughter will not become a prime minister of Nepal someday, I bet he/she will. It is not like India had a feminine movement among the working class women and they elected through sheer power of women. She happened to be a "Gandi" literally. They will elect their dog with that name if they have to. It was NOT even symbolic of women's right, it was all power of a particular political "name" aka "Gandhi", a legacy of their independence. Had they elected an untouchable woman from the slums of Bombay, it would have be a different story. So to brag about it to the West is a bit childish esp among those who has studied Eastern history. There's a difference between "politics" and "women's right". And about women being worshipped, it is even worse to make that an bragging point. Let us just take a look at Nepal itself. There is a day during the festival of Tihar where we literally worship dogs. Stray dogs are rounded up and put garland around their neck and chanted prayer. So do we really care dog as much as the people in the US. Not even close. It is nothing but a symbolic celebration of a religion. Mixing religion with practical life will not make any sense especially in South East Asia. Yes, you worship women with deities like Sararaswati, Laxmi, what is the practical implication of that. Does that literally mean you treat women better than the West? No way Jose. Yes, America has problems too but it is nothing primitive like in Nepal, just minuscule. You can argue logically or mix-mash everything and make no sense. You choose. Issac, You are very right about those countries. Those people from a patriarchal society are changing slowly with better education and influences from the world. Yes, some do come to America and never learn or change, probably Ajay was on one them. I'm not surprised how her mother re-acted. It's run in their blood in those culture. I can tell about Nepal, things in the city with women are much better than it used to be. If I'm not wrong, women are entitled to the father's will in equal amount as the son, they are getting jobs, driving and entering professional jobs. Last time I checked the attitude of having a daughter and not being happy is slowly changing, women are bringing more income than the men these days. Of course, I do accept things are NOT that great in the rural parts, which literally needs economic and educational improvement and can change over time. We are far better than some of the neighbour, some are even more powerful than us.
Bob Marley · Jul 12, 2009 1:20 PM
Isaac, I trust you. Now, tell me, can there be "only one of pivotal points"? One pivotal point is pivotal point. There can not be several pivotal points. I have had conversation with one of the jurors sometimes ago in this forum. I trust her and I am sure she tried to be fair. But I want to verify--as one former American president said , "Trust but verify". And this verification process gets muddy. Last edited: 12-Jul-09 01:35 PM
pire · Jul 12, 2009 1:29 PM
Bob, You are right that the difference here is minuscule and that has to do a lot with the prosperity. Without prosperity that minuscule difference grows to be a monstrous difference. We saw how good the women rights were in this country during KATRINA. In chaos people come down to becoming animals and in our country chaos is an everyday thing.Human beings pretty much behave the same way if things are normal. We see less of women rights abuse here in this country because prosperity has made a woman possible to get out of the oppression and start a new thing. Unfortunately in Nepal that is not an option for each and every woman. Yes in India woman was elected as a head of the state. Indira Gandhi had it easier with her father's background but more than that it was the willingness of people to vote for a woman to lead the country. Imaging if Hillary had won the primaries, would she have been elected as a president in this country. Lets forget about the national election, didn't she loose primaries because she is a woman. American men would rather vote a Man instead of a women. Sid Last edited: 12-Jul-09 01:52 PM
sidster · Jul 12, 2009 1:42 PM
Isaac, Uma Singh's case shook the whole country--but you misunderstand the case. Her murder was not perpetrated by govt. As it turned out (If I understand the case correctly), her brother's wife hired goons to kill her because of a quarrell with property. We may be a poor country-- and chaotic--but we take it quite seriously when a women is killed. I hate the Maoists because they were so bloodthirsty, but even they spared women. (My uncle was forced to flee from his village, but aunt never left the village.) The country was shaken when Maina Sunar was killed by army, even at the height of insurgency. Rape/killing of women shocks us; it is the worst of the crimes. Sure, it is only one aspect of women rights-they need to be equal in lots of other fields, but like others here pointed out, the country is transforming. Parents are proud of their daughters, and daughters too have started to keep their sirname even after their marriage. Govt hasn't harrassed women rights activists yet. At least, I don't know any of such cases, and I have talked to many of them. I think women activists such as Aruna Uprety, Renu Rajbhandari or Sapana Pradhan are very well respected in our society. I think Amnesty sometimes does valuable job, but lots of time, it too operates under the western stereotype, that Nepal is a country where anyone who speaks for equality, women rights etc are oppressed. Just like you. I am sure you have well intention, but you can't shake off the stereotype you have been inculculated with, can you?
pire · Jul 12, 2009 2:24 PM
Sidster and Pire While I will not even begin to comment on rights of woman in Nepal since I have no clue and absolutely no knowledge of what goes on in Nepal, I can comment on the case. That I have knowledge of... I assure you both, we looked into the possibility of a consensual love affair between Ajay and the victim. The problem that we kept running into no matter which angle we went was this... the ENTIRE defense strategy was that the was never a sexual relationship between Ajay and the victim. Based on the evidence, we know that a sexual relationship occured. If the relationship was consensual, wouldn't the defense had been that there was a relationship after she was 18 and it was consensual? There would have been no crime since she was 18 and he would be free and clear. Since he claimed that nothing ever happened and everything was a story made up in her head, it was hard to buy that it was consensual.... Not to mention that we found it odd that when she suspected she was pregnant, she went to him. They did a test together in his work office and then he took her to a clinic.. Of course, this does not prove he was the father (he wasn't found guilty of the charges relating to pregnancies) but it does seem odd.
allysma · Jul 12, 2009 2:24 PM
“how do you know this is not the time? I am just curious. As far as I am concerned, it could be the exact time when a bias is occured.†I don’t know it the same way as you don’t know it. If you talk about the probabilities, it can be probable for everything. But the evidence can not lie. I say, there is no probability that jurors are racists. FYI, the jurors are concerned about the facts and evidence rather than emotions. You’re the one who want’s to meddle with emotions on top of facts. “This is where I am surprised. No evidence, but one sentence said in a heated conversation established beyond doubt that a man deserves to be in jail. And that sentence was about "consent", right? Is this the whole proof behind this lengthy sentencing?†What kind of evidence or definitve proof or concrete evidence you’re looking for? Are you interested in seeing a tape of incestual sex between them? Disgusting! What consent are you talking about? Don’t you see any crime in having incest; don’t you see any crime in having sex with a minor? What are you trying to advocate here? At one point, you guys want to make him a conservative devoted hindu father; and at other time, you say he has been americanized. I don’t see juors having to regret. There is an evidence and many facts exist that points that this rapist is a rapist. I say, there’s no equality of sex in Nepal. Women were accused as witches in Americas, but in Nepal they ARE being accused and they ARE being burned. “Hindus don't condone violence on women.†If you don’t consider brutal rapings, burnings, chopping, and beatings as violence, I’ve nothing to say. “Nepal may be inching well ahead of America by now. “ If you’re writing a piece of fiction, I again have nothing to say. Pire, you actually admit you’re a biased person, and you see everyoneelse as the same.
lakhe · Jul 12, 2009 2:29 PM
"I hate the Maoists because they were so bloodthirsty, but even they spared women." Do you by abducting the under-aged girls, they spared women?
lakhe · Jul 12, 2009 2:32 PM
Issac - other than mistaking the Brahminical world view for Nepali culture and somehow getting Hinduism mixed up along the way with the caste system thrown in for good measure, what exactly is your stand in the matter? Let me tell you, madam, the Brahmincal world view does not define Nepali culture or Hinduism, but yes, it does have a particularly disgusting take on the caste system. May be you have a different view. Do continue to try and amuse us - and excuse us for being sooooo patriarchal!
Syangjali Magar · Jul 12, 2009 2:39 PM
"Sure, it is easy to file a rape case here, but we don't have wage differentiation in Nepal, and female college graduates are more than half of a graduating class in China. And of course, our recent 33% female parliamentarian provision in Nepal makes us ahead of America in granting rights to women." You really seem to working on the fiction, don't you? How did you find out there's no wage differentiation in Nepal. Do you know the wage difference between the leading actors and actresses in Nepal? FYI, it differs by at least a factor of four. Have you ever asked the wages of male and female construction workers or any daily laborers in Nepal?
lakhe · Jul 12, 2009 2:43 PM
Lakhe, Where did you find me saying "incest" is not crime? -- Btw, your tone is not appropriate. Try writing it again in a better, neutral tone, and I will respond to you. Otherwise, you can talk to yourself or throw mud at me from sideways in this thread while I ignore you.
pire · Jul 12, 2009 2:49 PM
Lakhe, Where did you find me saying "incest" is not crime? -- Btw, your tone is not appropriate. Try writing it again in a better, neutral tone, and I will respond to you. Otherwise, you can talk to yourself or throw mud at me from sideways in this thread while I ignore you.
pire · Jul 12, 2009 2:49 PM
Lakhe, Where did you find me saying "incest" is not crime? -- Btw, your tone is not appropriate. Try writing it again in a better, neutral tone, and I will respond to you. Otherwise, you can talk to yourself or throw mud at me from sideways in this thread while I ignore you.
pire · Jul 12, 2009 2:49 PM
You never said incest is not a crime. What kind of concrete evidences are probable to exist in these cases? DNA or any other forensics can't be obtained since it is old. So what else are you really looking for? Apologies for my tone if it sounded offensive.
lakhe · Jul 12, 2009 3:05 PM
Lakhe, I was upset because you thought I was sick and was looking for tape. NOT. Here is what I was thinking: Often, rape cases are proved on the basis of semen test or other evidence found in women's clothes. The girl who is raped should report to police as soon as it happened. In this case, where we are talking about 500+ times of rapes, there got to be more concrete evidence of forced entry. I wondered when did the victim report the case: to me, it seems she reported the case after the two stopped having any relationship. When he was raping her hundreds of times, she didn't report the case, but when he stopped , she reported the case. This doesn't make sense. Again, it may be because of victim's own helplessness; she might be under a lot of duress. It is also possible that when she thought enough was enough, and moved out, hoping these would be the things of the past, Ajay demanded that relationship be continued, which forced her to go to the detective. But there has to be evidences corroborating one way or other.Detectives normally spend lots of time in preparing a case like this against an individual. Where is that diligence? You see I admitted being biased; I could do so because I am not in a jury, I am not sending a man to jail for 250 years. My first two movies in the USA were "Chinatown" and "Cider House Rules", both of which had American father having incestous relationship with their daughter. The third one was "American Pie". This country, I thought, was so obsessed with sex that anything could happen here. Again, whatever my bias, I do have the right to initiate my inquiry in this case. Regarding wage differential: How many actresses/actors are there in Nepal? What fraction of total labor force does that constitute? Also, do they have the 'same' job? I think actress has different role than actors, no? If a film has female dominant story with a male sidekick, one can assume she will fetch more--but I am not sure. My observarion is based on my own experience--I am a farmer and brick kiln owner. Male khetala and female khetala for the same work got the same amount of money in my region. And farmers constitute an absolutle majority of workers. But again, I was not talking in absolute term. When I said there were no wage differentials, I should have said "there are relatively less wage differentials". I was not in a binary world, I was not talking about whether it exists or not, but by how much does it differ. ============ Alysma, "There would have been no crime since she was 18 and he would be free and clear. ." I am surprised. So, you are saying if he had admitted of having relationship in the past, he would be free? And even though there were only circumstantial evidence of such relation, you wanted to send him to jail for so long? you think it is appropriate sentence? I would love to see your take on this news and my questions below: http://www.nepalnews.com/main/... and compare 70-250 years sentence to Ajay. (I understand that the verdict of jury means Ajay may get 70-250 years in jail, but judge decides about it.) Here are my thoughts: 1. Which crime is more severe? Can we even compare crimes? 2. Is UK soft on crime or is US tough on crime? Is US now a safer place? What is the fundamental difference in UK and USA that results in such a difference in crime? Would american jury member who sat on Ajay's jury have given similar sentence to those men in that crime? 3. Why is there are about 700 per 1 00 000 people in jail in USA while 100+ in the rest of the world? Are americans more criminals? Are american juries tougher?
pire · Jul 12, 2009 5:14 PM
Pire I have no idea of the justice system in UK. I do not know why the sentence was so little. I do not know at which ages people are considered "adults". Is it 18, 20, 25 etc....? I do not know why there are so people in prison. I do not know whether or not UK is soft on criminals.. I do not know.... I am not saying specifically he would be free, I am saying that his story did not make sense either. I personally would have been able to swallow his story if he claims that there had been a consensual affair between the two but for him to claim that NOTHING ever happened, he was obviously hiding something. As far as sentencing, we are not told what the punishment may be, plain and simple. I do not know what he will be sentenced to and will not know until he is sentenced. I am thinking that even if he gets 1 year for each sentence, that is 76 years. It will be a life charge since he is 42 now. Does it really make a difference if he gets 76 or 350 years? A life sentence is a life sentence.... Last edited: 12-Jul-09 05:38 PM
allysma · Jul 12, 2009 5:36 PM
And 76 years is the minimum?
pire · Jul 12, 2009 5:45 PM
I do not know what the minimum is....I was using 76 years as a "1 year per charge" guess... I am only going by what the newspaper said was what he was looking at.
allysma · Jul 12, 2009 5:51 PM
Pire Let me ask you this and I am truly not trying to be rude... If the victim was your daughter, mother, sister, aunt, cousin, or good friend, would you be questioning the length of the possible sentence? Would you be ready to send him away forever if you were somehow personally involved?
allysma · Jul 12, 2009 5:55 PM
Rape cases are often lost because of the concrete evidence as semens. That's why they recommend to go for the physical check-up asap. But it can't happen in all the cases. But as you see, that kind of evidence is not possible in this case. But there're number of other facts which can be linked together to convict this rapist. There might not be a forced entry; it might just have been submissive/blackmails. Since the girl was looking for/ having bf; and she moved out; for me, it shows that she wanted to get over with this adopted father. But this rapist still wanted to continue and didn't allow her having any other relationship and made her go to cops. If you read the original article again, you'll notice that she reported the case not after she ended her relationship with this rapist, but after this rapist came hunting for her even after her move-out. For me, it DOES make sense. She tolerated as much as she could. How many more YEARS do you think they need to spend before convicting this rapist? Sooner he's behind the bars, safer the society is. For me, the DILIGENCE doesn't increase automatically by spending/working longer. I do agree with you that this thread has been educative. As someone posted the link for another sexual offender, Mr. Sharma, whom ANA lists proudly. In his case also, nepali people didn't believe and more than FIFTY NEPALESE sent the letter supporting him, but the court convict him any way. Are you proposing that jury needs to be examined by a psychiatrist before sitting in this trial? For me, our country is not less biased with sex; the only difference I observe is closed and open societies. In the current issue of Sadhana, there's a following article about incests taking place in nepalese society; http://www.newsofnepal.com/sad... the only difference is they don't go to report or are often scolded, suppressed and ridiculed by the society when they speak. I don't think we're doing less by questioning the characters of the victim here. Victim had the burden of proof in this case; victim was also examined by a psychiatrist as jurors mentioned to prove that she's not insane. But the rapist didn't have to go to a lie-detector test. "Also, do they have the 'same' job? I think actress has different role than actors, no? If a film has female dominant story with a male sidekick, one can assume she will fetch more--but I am not sure." That is exactly what these sexists tell when they discriminate for wages among the sexes. These days, female actresses are also doing the stunts, and there may be the movies with the actresses playing the lead roles. But it doesn't count. RULE IS A RULE. I don't know about brick kilns; I'm talking about the day-laborers for constructions works. Sometimes, women do more work than men; but again rule is a rule; and they argue women do less work. I don't remember the numbers, but I don't count the difference as less. As I mentioned among actors and actresses, it differs by 4-5 times; that's what I read in interviews given by actresses in papers. Would you still consider that as RELATIVELY less?
lakhe · Jul 12, 2009 6:09 PM
Allysma, The meaning of justice is not what you would do if the 'victim' were your sister. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Those whose sisters are wronged want the extreme sentence and those whose sisters are accused want the most lenient sentence. As a judge, you don't want to be either. You want to see the facts, and be disattached to all kind of emotions. I have nothing but the highest degree of sympathy for the victim, Allysma. God bless her, and if wrong has been done to her, she deserves kudo for coming out, reporting the crime and taking it to the conclusion. But I think every crime has a condign punishment. So, when you judged this case, Alysma, if you put yourself on the shoes of the victim, then you made a grave error. You were supposed to be dispassionate. Nispriha, as they say in sanskrit. You have given a lifetime of prison to someone, and you will have to live with questions like mine for the rest of your lifetime. I am sure you will always ask yourself whether you made a right decision. It is you who have to live with the consequence of your decision, not me. It is you have the burden to defend your decision, not me. Suppose, you hear of the same crime committed by a white man in Nebraska tomorrow, perhaps more heinous, but he is sentenced to five years in prison by white jury there, then it will be you who will have to justify your decision, not me. So, my answer to your question is I won't be hypocrite. I am a normal man, and I have all emotions god has given to me. If my sister is wronged, and I am convinced of that, I would want the sick bastard to be in jail for as long as possible. But civil societies throughout the world have a system; it is not what a victim want that is called justice. Now, here is one thing: you knew that you wrote this sentence "There would have been no crime since she was 18 and he would be free and clear. ." and then "..I am not saying specifically he would be free," you know you changed your statement quickly. Under a gruelling questioning, it is normal for a man to change statements once in a while and be inconsistent. So, if someone is sent to jail for 350 years for one statement, then I am not sure what to say about it. I also thought your sentence "Does it really make a difference if he gets 76 or 350 years? A life sentence is a life sentence...." was a flippant. At least, in Nepal, it does. First , there are several ways one can work to reduce their sentence. Model prisoners earn prison sentence reductions periodically. So, if it is 76, one can still hope to come out, smell the air of Lake Tahoe before his death. If it is 350 years, that probability is less. Best wishes to you. I still want to believe that as a jury member, you did all you could to reach a verdict that was just. God bless you if you did everything justly, and I am sure your reward is in heaven.
pire · Jul 12, 2009 6:22 PM
Wow this thread is gonna burst in length. I thought this was a straight-forward case of an incestual sex with a minor - rape or consensual is the question. I am no law pundit, hence I am not gonna advocate for a convict who already had an 'incestual sex' with a minor (that's quite clear). Now it is not gonna tickle my hormones of sympathy for the convict if he did NOT commit rape. Incestual sex with a minor is no less a crime than rape in my book. And I think American judicial system thinks likewise (But again, I am no law pundit) What is Pire's point though? Seems like he's trying a bit hard here to prove his point. Or may be Ajay Dev'gan is his favorite actor- I would not know. 75 years of prison or 250 years of imprisonment- there is not MUCH difference practically. Semen test- sure. But what would you do to someone who hit and ran and managed to escape law for few months but later found to be guilty of the crime (hit) through other sources? He might escape hit and run but not the crime (hit) which he committed and against which evidences were found intact. PS I am not sure if 'incestual sex' is a right terminology. Sounds a bit redundant but I am using it anyways for the lack of a better term or for the lack in depth of my knowledge.
pret aatma · Jul 12, 2009 6:35 PM
Pire I misspoke.. had he admitted that there was a consensual affair between them, he could be free and clear of all charges after she was 18. Even if it was consensual before 18, a crime was still commited. He would not be free and clear of those. We completely kept our personal lives and emotions out of that deliberation room. I did come home everyday and hug my family and not let my kids out of my sight..... He committed these crimes against his daughter and because a child was involved, the sentences for those are more extensive than those charges for after she was 18. If the Judge decides to run sentences concurrent, maybe he will have an opportunity to get out someday. Last edited: 12-Jul-09 06:40 PM
allysma · Jul 12, 2009 6:36 PM
And it's NOT a 'consensual' sex anymore if one of the parties involved is a minor - it's a STATUATORY RAPE (although laws may vary across the nation, from state to state but I think it's true in CA at least)
pret aatma · Jul 12, 2009 6:51 PM
Yes the crime of Statutory Rape with a minor is clear from the recorded phone call. It is fair for him to get punished for statutory rape but the rape accusations after she turned 18 is doubtful. Sid
sidster · Jul 12, 2009 8:53 PM
Sidster She still lived in the family home and was going to school (high school and some of the time college) after she turned 18. She had no means of moving out and had no where else to go. She had no other family here. When she finally had the money and the strength to move out, she was continually harrassed as well as her friends. The events after she moved out is what finally gave her enough motivation to go to the police. Pire After seeing what I saw in the court and hearing what I heard, would it bother me to see him spend the rest of his life in prison.. NO. If he does get out someday, he will have to live next door to someone. As a mother, do I want a convicted child rapist living next door to me? NO. And before you ask, No, this was not something I thought about in the deliberations while coming to our verdicts.
allysma · Jul 12, 2009 9:43 PM
If she was raped for all these years why didnt she talk to someone? Her mom as I know is very understanding woman. She could have talked to other Nepali who came to her house. She could have talked to anyone. She was attending College and I know she is smart enough to know what was happening to her for all those years. Which I am not able to understand is that she waited for so many years to come forward. We all are taught in High School /College about abuse. She would be protected.
Dance Zone · Jul 12, 2009 10:21 PM
Dance Zone, let me tell you most victims of sexual abuse just stay quiet because of social stigma and people like you who think it is right to ridicule the victim. Imagine to tell other people your own dad rapes you. It takes lots of courage , and it is a fact . Nothing would have happened had she told...they would have just tried to keep her in Nepal just like they did..
ss74k · Jul 12, 2009 10:36 PM
Allysma, What I say below has nothing to do with Ajay. Just a general observation, and I hope you will try to read it without associating with this specific case. --- I find an answer in your reply about why there are so many people in jail these days. Look, not only convicted child rapist, I don't want any liar, thief, robber, adult rapist, foul mouthed etc next to my door. But that doesn't mean I have to lock him up in the jail for all his life. American societies have gone through this change: 100 years ago, people were sent to jail to rot there. Chain gangs were regular ; a gritty expose film, I am a fugitive from chain gang (1932), a Paul Muni starrer, had vividly portrayed the life in jail at the time. Perhaps due to these movies and other publicity, then, suddenly, a pang of conscience struck common people, and people thought convicts should be sent to jail so that 'they can be reformed there and sent back to the society as an useful person'. It was the era when tough jails like Alcatraz etc became very unpopular in America and were shot down. Now, again, people have become cynical and prisons are overcrowded. This is a far cry from UK and Nepal--where people recoil from sending people to jail for the long term. The rest of the world has been so different from the USA that if you see the ranking of countries who send people to capital punishment, USA ranks along side such pariah states as Iran, North Korea , China and so on. USA has become a state of cynical citizens, who are suspicious of everybody, even their neighbor, and who believe that man's actions and whims are incorrigible no matter what lesson you teach him.. I wish you could read this news that came out today in a Nepali newspaper. http://www.nayapatrika.com/new... This is a story of a man who robbed a bank, and was sent to jail. After jail, he goes to a village and starts a cooperative and a school. This reform is a major news in a national newspaper. It probably shows undying optimism people have in another people in Nepal, and it is significant because we are about to forgive thousands of guerillas/army personnels who might have committed murder in the past. Before 1996, when Maoists brutality started, Nepali society was so peaceful that murderers were thought to be rare, and murders were thought to be occuring mostly accidentally; incidentally, the highest punishment a man could be given was 20 years, and lots of time, it counted days and nights as separate, so 20 years tend to be 10 years, actually. Even the most brutal rulers, Rana rulers, didn't dare to give capital punishment; when they killed four martyrs in 1940 AD, they were willing to waive the punishment if those people had apologized. I won't make a value judgement on which system is right. But as Jesus himself once said, something along the line, 'let he who hadn't sinned cast a stone first'.., I start out with the assumption that we all are weak and are liable to commit some kind of crimes , in some kind of circumstances, in our life. And that no matter how hard we be on criminals, no matter what our wishful thinking is, this world won't be free of them. It was nice conversing with you. Have a blessed life, and I have a new week to start, lots of works to do which I didn't do in the weekend, and won't be back.
pire · Jul 12, 2009 10:38 PM
Dance Zone She was threatened regularly that if anyone found out, she would go back to Nepal and the family would break up. You say her mom would have been understanding? Why then was it that when she told her mom about it, her mom has not spoken to her since? Her side was never told to her mom, her mom shut her out and never even tried to get her side.... Pire You dont want him living next to you when he gets out, then who does he live next door to? He has to be someones neighbor when he finally gets released. The next best thing, leave him in prison then noone has to worry about having this child rapist next door to them.
allysma · Jul 12, 2009 11:04 PM
Pire - I can only sit back and half-laughingly laud your empathy towards convicts/criminals. I believe I am not being judgmental here. Your take on this case, and the very mention of the incident where you let the minor who hit your car escape from law make me believe that you tend to act on emotions. I am of the belief that one should let the law comes into action wherever and as much as possible rather than taking actions based on your intuitions. Laws are made to HELP people. Hence they should be used at maximum (wherever and whenever possible) The US jurisprudence is one of the "strongest" and "stringent" among its counterparts across the globe. [Please note the double quotes to emphasize that these two words are complimentary here]. It does not impose its laws upon people only once/when they commit a crime/offense. It's transparent and readily available for information unlike some of the laws in other countries. Laws on sex with minors and rape are no exceptions. As a responsible citizen, one should be aware of the protective seals and traps the system of law offers. There is a very little or no room for compassion in the US jurisprudence as I see. And that is the very reason for its strength.
pret aatma · Jul 12, 2009 11:28 PM
Allysma, "She still lived in the family home and was going to school (high school and some of the time college) after she turned 18. She had no means of moving out and had no where else to go. She had no other family here. When she finally had the money and the strength to move out, she was continually harrassed as well as her friends. The events after she moved out is what finally gave her enough motivation to go to the police" This statement is hard to believe in a country like this.It doesnt take 6- 8 years for one to move out of the house. It would have been one thing if things were done in captivity. Like what the Austrian Father did to his daughter. A 18 year old is smart enough and has enough accesses to look for help. If this had happened one or two times this would have been one thing but 500 times at different locations?????? hmmmm that begs doubt.... Why would she even go to the motel nearby the house??? why would she even meet him there???? Didn't she know her father's motive after, lets say the 400th time??? some say that the father bribed her few times....if you agree to sleep for money, even if it was just once, doesn't that negate the remaining 499 rapes???? I do not have any sympathy to Ajay as he seems to make this choice in full conscience. I hope that he gets punished for the crime he has committed and not the ones that he has not. And if the US laws says 70 - 250 years for a Stuatory Rape, let it be that. Each country has its own law and convict will be punished per its law. Sid
sidster · Jul 13, 2009 8:32 AM
Sidster I actually agree with you in some ways. Keep in mind that all of the charges which were listed with dates after she moved out were all hung jury. He was not found guilty on any of those. I for one argued that she made choices after she moved out and put herself in a position that was not smart. Although, she did not meet him at the motel, he drove her there (with the promise of going to a park to "talk"). All of the guilty verdicts were all while she still lived in the home. Also, he began bribing her with money to come back home and sleep with him for money after she moved out. Not to mention, that after she moved out is when he threatened to discontinue paying for her schooling.
allysma · Jul 13, 2009 9:03 AM
Sidster, "This statement is hard to believe in a country like this.It doesnt take 6- 8 years for one to move out of the house. It would have been one thing if things were done in captivity." Please keep in mind that we nepali or nepali-Americans teenagers are very much different in making decision then the real American teenages who grow up here. We Nepalese are surrounded with many issues. It would not take 1 minute to report the crime to authority but who is going to believe this without evidences. Also, look at the consequences if it can not be proved.
RmNY · Jul 13, 2009 9:39 AM
RmNY, If a seventeen year old Mexican girl who doesn't speak English can cross the border illegally, work at taco bell, survive herself and support the parents back home making wages below the minimum wage, you are saying that a Nepali Girl who came to this country when she was 15, went to HS here, has lots of AMERICAN friends, families, and sympathizers, kept getting suffered for years after turning 18???? Makes you want to question whether she was really forced? Or did she just let it ride as long as it worked out for her as well .......and as soon as it stopped working out for her she went to the court????? It just seems that she had many choices to avoid the abuse after she turned 18 and yet she chose not to do so. And if you are a teenager yourself. Please keep in mind that you have lots of options unlike what the victim thought in this case. Sid Last edited: 13-Jul-09 10:12 AM
sidster · Jul 13, 2009 10:06 AM
Sidster, most victims of any type of abuse can easily be manipulated and just stay in the same cycle. These type of people needs whole bunch of counselor to lead a normal life.Since she has been constantly abused by the time she came from Nepal, i doubt she has same set of mind frame like other people like you and me who didn't go through this trauma. Since you are questioning her ability, i would like to remind is it is easier to be said than done. Why Do Adults Stay In Abusive Relationships? http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/... Last edited: 13-Jul-09 11:07 AM
ss74k · Jul 13, 2009 10:26 AM
Hey I am trying to learn Hindi starting today! Which line is the woman in the video trying to say? a) Mujhe Bhagwaan ke liye chhod do ( Adopted Daughter's claim) b) Mujhe Bhagwaan ke liye chodo (Ajay's claim)
mR. hydE · Jul 13, 2009 6:09 PM
I can't believe there are some idiots out there that still believe he is innocent. Last edited: 13-Jul-09 07:10 PM Last edited: 13-Jul-09 07:11 PM Last edited: 13-Jul-09 07:16 PM
nepaliinchina · Jul 13, 2009 6:11 PM
and ofcourse its our culture/tradition/chalan/ to always take males side nomatter what happens. If a girl gets raped..its because she was too uttaouli, if husband cheats on his wife..wife was too lazy, if husband beats the crap out of wife..because wife has big mouth, I can go on and on about it. Its always women's fault. I am a Nepali woman and if I ever get raped in Nepal..I would never report it. Why would I want to be ridiculed by the whole society on top of being raped. Dance zone is a typical dumb Nepali, he is taking pedophile Ajay Dev's side just because Ajay Dev is a male. Dance zone, you are way to dumb to understand what that girl went through. And as you mentioned that the girl always had boys in the house and stuff like that..its the result of being molested by her father.
Av · Jul 14, 2009 12:41 AM
AV I havent been to Nepal so I dont know how how Nepali woman are. But you stop barking you stupid woman.
Dance Zone · Jul 14, 2009 3:43 PM
Dance zone, if you are not a Nepali then you are an Indian..and ofcourse you are a pedophile.. you have so much sympathy for a pedophile..you must be one too.
Av · Jul 14, 2009 10:40 PM
I have seen Ajay Dev personally in NAFCA in Davis 2 yeras back. He was distributing prizes or something else inside the Hall. After some time, I heard that he was talking outside with some young guys using "machi..." word. Dance zone aka dhoti bhaiya...stop backing up the pedophile...
samosa · Jul 14, 2009 11:31 PM
As NepaliInChina indicated, Ajay and wife used to have other couple over and pick a random key from bowl of communal keys and pick a bedroom partner based on the key draw. That shows this couple was comfortable with swapping partners. Doesn't that show the wife might have stayed mum inspite of the knowledge of Ajay having sexual relationship with the adopted daughter? If true, the wife would have breached the fiduciary duty to care/ minister to the minor daughter and should be made to face the music in the court of law. Just an observation!
mR. hydE · Jul 15, 2009 9:13 AM
ENOUGH OF THIS BULL SHIT !!!
BathroomCoffee · Jul 15, 2009 10:03 AM
He was a swinger? where do you get that from now?
grgDai · Jul 16, 2009 12:17 AM
Another example in news today: Blame the victimI hope, it will make use see clearly about this case too. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid...
lakhe · Jul 23, 2009 4:32 PM
Another example of protecting the culprit and blaming the victim: नयाँ पत्रिका काठमाडौं, ८ साउन विराटनगर घर भई राजधानीको बानेश्वरस्थित एक घरमा काम गर्न बसेकी मजदुर बालिका मालिकबाट बलात्कृत भएकी छिन् । नयाँबानेश्वर खरिबोटका करिब ४० वर्षीय घरमालिक सरोज गौतमले आफ्नै घरमा काम गर्ने विराटनगर पानीट्यांकी-१ की १२ वर्षीया बालिका कविता (नाम परिवर्तन) लाई घरमा कोही नभएको मौका छोपी बलात्कार गरेका हुन् । गौतमले गत २७ असारमा बालिकालाई बलात्कार गरेको उनकी दिदीले महानगरीय प्रहरी वृत्त, बानेश्वरमा दर्ता गराएको जाहेरीमा उल्लेख छ । गौतमले घरमा कोही नभएको वेला आफूलाई जबर्जस्ती गरेको पीडित बालिकाले नयाँ पत्रिकालाई बताइन् । 'घरमा कोही थिएनन्, अंकल रक्सी खाएर आएका थिए, ढोका थुनेर मलाई जबर्जस्ती गरे,' पीडित बालिकाले भनिन् । 'म चिच्याएँ तर मुख थुनिदिए, जबर्जस्ती सुताएर थिच्न थालेपछि नानी चिच्याइन्, अनि दोस्रो तलाको आन्टी नानी किन चिच्याएको भनेर ढोका ढकढक्याउन आउनुभयो,' उनले भनिन् । बालिकालाई जबर्जस्ती गर्न थालेपछि गौतमकी दुईवर्षे छोरी चिच्याएको उनले जानकारी दिइन् । घरको दोस्रो तलामा बस्ने महिलाले ढोका ढकढक्याएपछि गौतम घरबाट निस्केका थिए । पछि, उनकी श्रीमती ऐनु गौतम आएपछि मालिकको ज्यादतीबारे बताएको बालिकाले सुनाइन् । 'म बाहिर गएकी थिएँ, आउँदा बाहिरै रहिछ, आउनेबित्तिकै सरले यस्तो गरे भनी,' ऐनु गौतमले नयाँ पत्रिकालाई भनिन्, 'तर उसको कुरामा विश्वास भएन कट्टु खोल्न लगाएर हेरेँ, रगतहरू केही थिएन ।' श्रीमती गौतमले आफ्नो लोग्ने निर्दोष रहेको जिकिर गरिन् । 'मैले तत्काल लोग्नेलाई फोन गरेँ, उहाँ त नभएको कुरा गर्ने त्यसलाई टुक्रा-टुक्रा पारेर फालिदिन्छु भन्दै आक्रोशित हुनुभयो,' श्रीमती गौतमले भनिन् । तर, बालिकाले भने मालिक्नीले कट्टु खोल्न लगाएर हेरेको र मालिकलाई फोन गरेर 'तँ कुकुर, राक्षस... छोरीजस्तीलाई यस्तो गर्ने ?' भनेर कराएको बताइन् । श्रीमती गौतमले यो कुरा कतै नभन्, यसको बेइज्जत हुन्छ भने फकाएको पनि उनले बताइन् । गौतम फर्केपछि बालिकाको ज्यानै खतरा हुने देखेर श्रीमती गौतमले बालिकालाई नन्दको डेरामा पठाएकी थिइन् । 'आन्टीले उहाँको नन्द कविता गौतमको डेरामा पठाउनुभयो,' बालिकाले भनिन्, 'कविता आन्टीलाई पनि थाहा छ, तर उहाँले पनि मेरो दाइले यस्तो गर्नै सक्दैन तैँले नै बढी बोलेको भनेर हप्काइन् ।' सोही दिन साँझ श्रीमती गौतम आफैँ नन्दको कोठामा पुगी बालिकालाई भोलि बिहान घर आउनू भनेर फर्किएकी थिइन् । भोलिपल्ट श्रीमती गौतमकी सासूले 'सरोज रिसाइरहेको छ, यसलाई मार्छ अन्तै पठा' भनेपछि आफूलाई अर्की नन्द प्रतीक्षाको घरमा पठाइएको बालिकाले बताइन् । 'भोलिपल्ट प्रतीक्षा दिदीको घरमा बसेर पीडित बालिका आफ्नै दिदी काम गर्न बसेको घरमा शरण लिन पुगेकी थिइन् । पीडित बालिकाकी दिदी अञ्जुले मालिकको सहयोगमा माइती नेपालको शरणमा बहिनीलाई पुर्याएकी थिइन् । बालिका अहिले सिविस नामक संस्थामा छिन् । बाबुको मानसिक सन्तुलन गुमेपछि आमाले अर्कै विवाह गरेको र दिदी र आफ्नो कमाइ पनि आमाले नै लाने गरेको पीडित बालिकाले सुनाइन् । बालिकालाई श्रीमती गौतमले एक वर्षअघि पढाइदिने सर्तमा घरमा काम गर्न लयाएकी थिइन् । बालिकालाई सुरुमा स्कुल भर्ना गरिदिए पनि पछि आफ्नी छोरी हेर्नुपर्ने भन्दै छुटाएका थिए । http://www.nayapatrika.com/new...
lakhe · Jul 24, 2009 2:57 PM
Lakhe, Looks like you just cant get enough of this crappy thread. Are you comparing those twelve year old suppressed girls who went through forced rape in a shitty country like Nepal with a so called consent or non consent " RAPE" of a 26 year old woman in a country like USA? Are you related to the accuser (At this point i have stopped calling her a victim.) ????? Otherwise you wouldnt underestimate rest of the people in this thread. Sid
sidster · Jul 24, 2009 4:54 PM
I don't see any crap in this thread. Please learn to see beyond personal relations. FYI, I learned the name of victim from this thread. I posted here just to point the culture of blaming the rape victims in societies. If you see the above video, you'll see the outrageous arguments made by victim's sister. I hope you're not trying to make the one here. I absolutely disagree that Nepal is a shitty country; it is currently being dominated by shitty people, and these shitty people will remain shitty and advocate for shittiness wherever they go. Consent? First of all, as far as I know, US law doesn't define consent below 18 years old. Secondly, if she was giving the consent and enjoying it, she does have no reason to escape from the relation. Thirdly, perhaps you'll never agree about the term called 'rape' in marital relationship, and will say consent for that too.
lakhe · Jul 24, 2009 5:58 PM
Is there a picture of Ajay Dev Kumar?
Power_Ranger · Jul 24, 2009 6:22 PM
Lakhe, Everyone on the thread agreed upon the decision made by Jury for the charges until she was 18. Its the 600 - 700 counts of unforced RAPE with a 26 year old woman that is not believable. Quit posting irrelevant news to the thread. It is obvious that you are related to the accuser and your comments are biased. Otherwise you wouldn't give a life to this dead thread again. Sid
sidster · Jul 24, 2009 6:51 PM
Please stop making personal accusations. May be you're related with the rapist; that's why you're so much agitated by reviving this thread. Just because you're related to the rapist doesn't mean everyoneelse is related. I never made an argument about the counts and how many years of sentence should be given to him. I don't have any idea about it. Please show me my one biased comment. You're not the one to give the definition of dead.
lakhe · Jul 24, 2009 7:40 PM
malai lakhe chai haina sidster chai related to rapist jasto lagyo, and sidster how can you say nepal a shitty country ??? Are you a nepali?? Guys keep on updating, i am also egerly waiting for august 7th.
rachel green. · Jul 24, 2009 7:50 PM
Rachel Ji, Naam chai Rachel rakhna pugna bhayecha tara lekhna chai nepali man pardo rahecha hajur lai.. Aba america jasto des ma 500 - 600 choti rape bhayo re 18 barsa nagheki keti lai, tyo pani yek choti pani chot patak nalagikana, teti matrai ho ra...500 - 600 choti to RAPE madhye yek dui choti ta...paisa liyera pani RAPE garayeko re...he he...tes mathi...Cali jasto thau ma khule aam ghumdai hidne, pheri pheri boyfried, saathi, ra hitaishi haru banauna nahichkichaune keti lai kasari yesto parna gayo hola ...? Rahyo kura....18 barsa aagadi to RAPE haru, USA ko niyam le ramro sanga " statuatory rape" ko bakhya garya cha...tesaile guilty le USA ko niyam pauna parne mero biswas cha...tara yaha....kuro bhujna warna napari decision dina chahane tapar tuiya haru ko SEXIST comment haru matra khandan garya ho. Suvaratri
sidster · Jul 24, 2009 8:50 PM
hey sidster I don't see any point arguing with you, but if a girl is over 18,and have a bad character it means her father can do whatever he wants to do?? oh my !!! god bless your daughter.
rachel green. · Jul 24, 2009 9:48 PM
"Its the 600 - 700 counts of unforced RAPE with a 26 year old woman that is not believable." Sid Where did that come from? She wasn't 26. The rapes were from the ages of 15-20.... and remember, he was NOT charged with 600-700 counts. He was charged with 1 rape per 3 month period for 5 years....
allysma · Jul 24, 2009 10:00 PM
Rachel, I dont see any point arguing with you either. But i want to make a similar idiotic point just like you made above about my non existing daughter. If you have an father with bad character, can the daughter do whatevver she wants with him....i hope your father had enough blessings !!!!!! Allysma, Thanks for clearing the readers on the proportions on counts of RAPES. Let me make my stance clear. I thought that the initial charges of RAPES were 500 to 600 counts but the jury settled with ( 1 rape per three months or whatever) US law is clear on sex with minor so i am not going to argue over whether all the sex counts they had before she was 18 was a RAPE or not. But i have skepticism over the counts of charges after she turned 18. Especially, if the victim took money to get RAPED in some instances. If she took money to get RAPED, then, that to me is a clear cut reason to drop charges for all the rapes that happened after she turned 18. Those RAPES should not be protected under the " statutory rapes" defined for the minors. I was disagreeing with the posts above where someone was comparing this with a brutal and forced rape of a 12 year old underprivileged girl in a third world country. Sid
sidster · Jul 25, 2009 6:05 AM
I don't know whom you're referring to by wanting to give decision. All my concerns is the relatives like you trying to protect the rapist. Can you give me your personal definition of "sexist"? I guess, you've your personal dicitionary for everything. Regarding my posting to revive the earlier thread, I clearly mentioned the blaming the victim and protecting the culprit culture. It's not a question of third or first world country. These third world people also come to america and do shitty things, and moreover they try to assasinate the character of the victim like you are trying to do here. In the video above, the sister of victim made the similar argument that you tried to make here. First, she tried to question the character of the victim and second trying to protect the culprit by saying it's "Third-world country matter". Whatever the cunning arguments you'll try to bring here, I hope the justice will be prompty served.
lakhe · Jul 25, 2009 10:57 AM
Lakhe, Who is trying to protect the culprit here. I do not have any issues over the culprit getting " Statutory Rape " charges for RAPES ( consent or non consent) that occurred before the girl was 18. For the RAPE charges after she turned 18, in my opinion they are baseless because it was heard that she took money to get RAPED couple times, if one takes money to get RAPED, even once, that negates the remainder of 599 rapes. Victim's claim of 500 - 600 RAPES does not add up. Even Jury found the culprit guilty of RAPES only 1 every three months period chargeable. I wonder what the other so called RAPES were about? Were they just fun RAPES? Let me use a Nepali term here, were the other rapes " doodhbhaat rapes" ( Sarcasm ) Is it logical to call just few encounters RAPES and the other encounters JUST FOR FUN encounters???? Use your head. To me its either all or nothing. It cant be few of them rapes and not the others Why are you trying to connect a 12 year old girls rape in captivity with a 20 year old free running woman's rape???? Quit trying so hard to prove that i am related to the culprit, if you read through the beginning of this thread i was quite happy with charges put on the culprit. As more information were available i am changing my stance. Sid Last edited: 25-Jul-09 03:38 PM
sidster · Jul 25, 2009 2:05 PM
Sid Nowhere was it even remotely brought up in court that she took money for sex. It was alleged that he offered to pay her if she moved back home and continued to allow him to have sex with her. She declined the offer. The victims claim was that she was raped 2 to 3 times week for 5 years. That is where the large number came from. Because it would have been next to impossible to prosecute something that large, the DA chose to use a time frame and include a charge of rape within that time frame. We had 94 counts to look at. This included rapes, lewd acts, dissuading a witness, great bodily harm charges, and, some porn charges. Not all of the charges were the act of rape. During the entire time, she was threatened to be sent back to Nepal if she told and she was afraid.
allysma · Jul 25, 2009 3:49 PM
Sid, I agree with you about the counts of rape. Regarding taking the money, I'm hearing from you for the first time. She was probably lured. I don't know. You mentioned the word "heard"; can court decide the things based on hearsay? I completely disagree that even if your scenario of taking the money for one time by her to be justified for dropping all other rape charges. The other terms, I'll seek is that Rapist was trying to do (by hook or crook) whatever he can to continue the crime he was committing with her. I didn't bring having relations; it's you who brought it first getting agitated by reviving this thread. Regarding citing two other rape cases, it shows how the relatives of the rapist, and in one case even the sister, other family members of the victim tried to protect the rapist in the name of culture, family-relations, society, etc. They'll then try to assasinate the characters of victim. I don't believe a single word about the alleged character of the victim by the relatives of rapists. You accused others for rushing to decide. But it's obvious you're the one who wants to decide for the case.
lakhe · Jul 25, 2009 4:01 PM
damn!! katra video raicha
damikattu · Jul 25, 2009 4:13 PM
Allysma, "During the entire time, she was threatened to be sent back to Nepal if she told and she was afraid." Does this define a RAPE. Sounds more like a sexual harassment than a rape. But again i am not a legal expert so don't know if this is a sexual abuse or a RAPE.
sidster · Jul 25, 2009 4:16 PM
Check out how many years he will be behind the bar......... http://sajha.com/sajha/html/op...
RmNY · Aug 7, 2009 9:09 PM
Convicted child rapist sentenced to 378 years in prison A convicted rapist was sentenced to 378 years and 4 months in state prison on Friday in Yolo County Superior Court. Ajay Kumar Dev, 42, formerly of Davis, was sentenced by Superior Court Judge Timothy Fall for his multiple count conviction of the rape and sexual assault of his adopted daughter, beginning when she was 15, between January 1999 and December 2004. In June, a jury had convicted Dev of 46 forcible sexual assaults on the child which under California law mandated full and consecutive sentences. Fall sentenced Deve to the upper term of eight years for each of those separates assaults finding that the factors in aggravation, including the violation of a position of trust, outweighed the sole factor in mitigation, the defendant's lack of prior record. Dev was also sentenced to the legally mandated full middle term of two years each for two separate acts of witness dissuasion against the victim one of which occurred when Deve followed the girl back to their home country of Nepal after she reported the crimes to the Davis Police Department, according to Yolo County District Attorney Jeff Reisig. "A consecutive sentence of six years and four months was handed down for six other non-forcible counts of chid molestation for which the jury had convicted Mr. Dev," Reisig stated. "Judge Fall also sentenced the defendant to the upper term of three years on twenty-two other counts but the execution of those sentences was stayed pursuant to the Penal Code." Reisig reported the sentencing hearing was attended by a large contingent of the defendant's family and friends as well as members of the local Nepali community. "Some of the jury members also attended the sentencing," Reisig reported. "Three of the defendant's supporters along with the defendant and his attorney Michael Rothschild made statements to the court on the defendant's behalf. The victim did not attend the sentencing but her victim impact statement was included in the report sent to the judge by the probation department. Source: http://www.dailydemocrat.com/n...
RmNY · Aug 7, 2009 9:17 PM
Great!! May he rot in jail Sidister, what part of rape you don't understand? It sounds like a rapist threatening not to tell. Don't you understand the meaning of threatening??
ss74k · Aug 7, 2009 9:23 PM
I'm lost for words, so many levels of emotins for people directly involved, I hope the lady victim finds some solance in the sentencing and hopefully she will get to live the life as normal as possible. Putting muself in the shoes of the wife, daughter, the parents of the perpetrator of this crime, I do not want to tell him to rot in jail, he yielded to the most henious emotion against a helpless child, our society is so aghast of. I am just sorry for everyone involved. KurLey.
KurLey · Aug 8, 2009 7:54 AM
Kurley and ss74k, I don't know where you guys are from. Just look at the justice system in this country. Madoff, who damaged the lives of thousands, or may be even more, is getting sentenced for 150 years. And this guy, Ajay, who brought a poor girl from him home country in order to give her a better life - which she is currently enjoying - is getting sentenced for 378+ years. I have no right to say that Mr Dev is innocent as I do not have any first hand information. However, I strongly believe that this country's justice system is far from foolproof as manifested in many incidences of putting innocent citizens in the death row. Moreover, racism, which otherwise cohertly exists in abundance, has also manifested itself at least a few times thanks to the media. People delivering justice may not necessarily be ill-intended but they seem, at least in this verdict, quite ignorant; and, ignorance is as abundant as potato in this country. As I said earlier, I have no right to say that Mr Dev is innocent; however, I strongly believe that the appeal for reviewing this case, as being filed by Ajay's family, should be granted. By the way, I have gone through enough sources in the internet to come into this conclusion.
eutaketa · Aug 8, 2009 6:12 PM
Eutaketa, What are you talking about? I guess you have no idea about Madoff, he didn't go through trail, he just pleaded guilty. Good for him to just plead guilty and save tax payer money to go through trial, as he already has wasted enough money. He just made a deal with prosecutor as there was no way for him to get out of that mess.Had he gone through the trial, i wonder how much sentence he would have got. His property was confiscated by fed. Do you think our government will arrest a curropt powerul person like Madoff and put in prison for 150 yrs? What are you talking about racism? Do you remember the victim was daughter and Nepalese? This Ajay guy went through trial, and he was convicted of many counts. If the jurors were wrong, the judge would have overturned. If you would have taken time to read what Allysma had written then you will know it is fair trial, she is one of the juror . Let me remind you if a person gets convicted of many counts, he or she gets sentence of each count. That is how he was sentenced to 378 yrs. I am now done with this thread.. Last edited: 08-Aug-09 07:08 PM
ss74k · Aug 8, 2009 6:45 PM
"if a person gets convicted of many counts, he or she gets sentence of each count.", !!, Exactly, Madoff might have ripped off 100's of people, but this person carried ot the same crime, to the same person, but for multiples of time time, which amounts to more crime commited than Maddof, and carries more time per crime. On top of that, although the family is appealing the case, unless it is reduced to less than total of lets say 40 years.....by when he'll be 80...something? Whats the point? Anyways, very sad for everyone involved.....me too done with the thread.
KurLey · Aug 9, 2009 8:00 AM
This was a highly controversial topic back then. Most people were dead sure that Ajay Dev was the culprit. It seems like he had to spend 16 years to be finally acquitted of the crime. Such an example of mob mentality that gets a life sentence to an innocent person.
ktmpost · Sep 24, 2025 2:07 PM
It reminded me "The phrase "glass half full" or "glass half empty". Which is an idiomatic expression that represents an individual's outlook on life. This expression highlights how one's attitude can influence their perception of situations and the world around them. Optimism is associated with seeing the glass as half full, indicating a positive perspective on life and opportunities. Pessimism is represented by the glass half empty, suggesting a negative view of life and potential problems.
Logan · Sep 25, 2025 1:58 PM
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