>We need to have a dalit to officiate at the Pashupathinath temple.   JPEG bandhu, If I rephrase it in the following way, it might point to the answer I am thinking. We need to create a situation which produces more popular support and less resistance to the progressive reforms so that when “a dalit officiates at the Pashupathinath temple”, the change is irreversible. So, basically what I saying is that HOW TO MAKE IT HAPPEN is more important than WHAT TO MAKE HAPPEN. Now, to answer my own “HOW” question, I would say, political empowerment of Dalit is the first step. And, in many ways, my talk yesterday was about this issue. And I was basically arguing that the empowerment of the subalterns is more efficient, more smooth, more direct, more penetrating and more permanent, if done through ‘inclusion’ in the central points of power (central government, central leadership of political parties and so on) rather than through ‘isolation’ in regional created centers (ethnic federal states). As it stands, in Nepal, since 1990, “Party-patinaths” are more and actually powerful than the “Pashupatinath”. शक्ति त पशुपतिनाथ भन्दा पनि पार्टीपतिनाथहरुसंग पो निहित छ त So, in terms of both ‘revolution’ and ‘evolution’, replacing Pushpa Kamal Dahal with a Pushpa Kamal Dalit, Madhav Kumar Nepal with a Madho Kumar Nai, Girija Prasad Koirala with a Garima Koiri and so on in political parties’ leaderships should make stepping stones. I hope I am not confusing. JPEG, I would also like to take this opportunity to applaud you for bringing interesting/important information regarding our diverse ethnicities and specially for your celebratory notes. Great job. Nepe     Partypatinath:

Nepe · May 25, 2009 6:09 PM

I don't mind having dalit to officiate all the hindu temples in Nepal especially Pashupathinath temple. Nepal was casteless society in the past. It was only when the later group who brought with them their vedic religion that ultimately influenced the local people and that's how caste system started to exist. God does not discriminate. It's the vedic teachings that discriminate.

JPEG · May 25, 2009 6:28 PM

Jpeg, No matter how caste system got introduced in the land of current Nepal (that includes Terai too, by the way), it is a wrong system. You further wrote: “Nepal was casteless society in the past. It was only when the later group who brought with them their vedic religion that ultimately influenced the local people and that's how caste system started to exist.” Well, I am not an anthropologist to comment authoritatively on this issue. However, from what I have read so far and what more speculation I can make based on my knowledge on the aspects of human evolution (as a trained biologist), I can certainly say that your statement seems to be based on किंबदन्ती and therefore is error-prone- in terms of strict academic rigor. You might want to read this piece by Surendra Singh on speculations about the past migration and evolution of Nepal’s caste system which has many non-Hindu pattern and elements. This paper’s major claim is that a part of current Chhetri-Bahuns and some hill Janajatis might have a common ancestry.       SOME NOTES ON NEPALI CASTES AND SUB-CASTES- JAT AND THAR. Suresh Singh http://nepaldalitinfo.20m.com/...   Opening para: This paper attempts to make a re-presentation of evolution and construction of Jat and Thar system among the Parbatya or hill people of Nepal. It seeks to expose the reality behind the myth that the large number of Aryans migrated from Indian plains due to Muslim invasion and conquered to become the rulers in Nepal, and the Mongoloids were the indigenous people. It also seeks to show the construction and reconstruction of identity of the different castes (Jats) and subcastes (Thars).   Concluding para: In my opinion, the Parbatya people are the mixture of the Mongol, Khasa, Tibeto-Mongoloids, and the few Indian upper castes that merged among themselves and gave a language Nepal and culture although they are divided into Jats and Thars. Only DNA tests may prove or disprove this view. ___________________________________________   Nepe   

Nepe · May 25, 2009 7:51 PM

No offense but valuing it,  your account in this thread, Nepesir, reminds something of dinosaur age description of Nepal..a synopsis of an era ditto to the works of yesteryears’ greats such as D B Bista and H B Gurung. Their descriptions were hangover of jaat-bhat, a social-economic order based on then jaat hierarchy, less or nothing relevant to this day Nepal, euta jaat bhandaa mixed jaat nai badhi bhayeko Neplal, jalle mouka payo tyasaile sabai subidhaa liyeko Nepal!   Today’s social order is measured in terms of productivity, which you know very well, and this too you know very well, this economic system in today’s world, including in your beloved Mao’s China, largely depends on mouka ..on access, but not by jaat bhaat! Access to; transportation, education, information, hospitals and anything but facility. Like mine, like yours. So, do you see from here, what kind of realities we have in Today’s Nepali? If you don’t, to tell you, there are only two jaats in Nepal in broader term- one has access to everything or most of it. They live in areas with transportation lead (road, airport, helipad), school and colleges, hospitals and probably with institutions, where they can learn computer or get passport… be it Kathmandu Valley, most of Kavre, district headquarters such as Dunai, or as plain and simple as Morang. The other one is remote of Jajarkot- least of everything across jaats you mentioned, because they don’t have access.     To put you before more diligently, how the heck one Newar from Solukhumbu, earning less than 10000 a year as a porter, would be at ease with Biman Man Sing’s wealth or BC’s mon-fri job somewhere in US? BC’s nonsense talks here in this forum benefit across the jaats, whoever speaks Nepali, whoever is no superficial! One earning Damai from a Jajarkot village can afford Samata School’s fee for his children, but cant send them to that school.   Why do you want to fuel this jaatbhaat aago, country is burning enough! If you want to take this issue further, take it with full empathy, with full responsibility..its good not to dilute others if one cant devote..again, no offense   Last edited: 23-Jun-09 03:45 AM

kishnekale · Jun 23, 2009 3:34 AM

well, the actual caste heirarchy of hinduism doesnt include so called mongoloid nepalese or indegenous nationalities, they were incorporated later by muluki ain drafted at the time of janga bahadur. they r called nationalities becasue they have thier own language, religion, custom n traditional native lands, it also includes khas of karnali n surrounding areas. like of newars n grgs do hav hirerarchy within them which is direct influence of hinduism but thats thier own prob . so, in my opinion it is very wrong to judge n put them them all together in one jar as jaat paat. they r more a nationalities or distinct communities of nepal not mere a jaat paat.  issues of kami damai not being able to touch water or getting beaten up trying to enter temple by so called higher caste is jaat paat to b resolved whihc r still happenin now n again.

yakthung_laje · Jun 23, 2009 9:54 AM

“Death toll in Jajarkot reaches 150 as tests reveal district gripped by cholera” http://www.nepalnews.com/main/... This is the reality- a reality clearly surpassing the sick side of social discrimination in the context of today’s Nepal. Disease prevailed across the jaats; not all ill fortuned could get the medicines. Medicines and Medicos were not available there. Geography hindered; not jaat bhaat. Lack of access is the problem; high-mountain topography is the problem. This does not mean there is no discrimination in areas where everything is accessible. We do have this issue of discrimination, but broadly economic. But, again, we do have Samata School there, not to mention hospitals and other health and help centers in the capital and along the corridors of the highways and to the reach of airways! People died in Jajarkot not because of their chronic illness. Mostly were healthy and happy in their last few days! They died because not they were Newars. They died not because they were Chetri. They died not because they belonged to one jaat. They died because they did not get medicines and attention. They died because they were in Jajarkot. They would not have died had they been in Nepalggunj! This contributor sees this case this way, and so you! Dont you? This is THE discrimination, not discussed often, if there was/is larger quest to tackle discrimination/social-discrimination least disturbing the geo-social existence of Nepal. This does not mean we do not have discrimination in places with access to medicines and opportunities. The discrimination is in other form- the economic disparity.  But, we do have people good people, in their limited capacities though, taking it seriously, talking it sensibly and tackling it rationally. K B Gurung addresses both past and future. That Bhattarai Mantri, discussed upon here for his attire, gives an outlook of our society in humble way. K B Gurung should be the voice on and off the table, not K B Bhattachan. That Bhattarai’s outfit is our reality, not first choice. Having said it, how true are we! How true are we to the cause! How true are we to the cause of past and present! This contributor is struggling and is passing out time writing this in semi-drunk state. We have MK Nepal, a bahuun like this contributor, the reigning prime minister, who at once instance was heard of negotiating for his daughter’s admission with a foreign dignitary. We have Tamang, again in this forum, talking about onetime Indian Idol’s Nepalism- did he ever face the endless strike like the other Nepali nationals did or are going thru even now. And, in response to Jajarlkot’s fatality and sadness, we still don’t have donors and doctors. Like most of us, the Teaching Hospitals graduates are too dozing off. Do these teaching hospital doctors feel all those who died in Jajakot or their family had contributed in national revenues? This revenue paid these doctors’ tuition at Teaching Hospital!   In sum, Nepesir, this day’s discrimination has many angles and shapes, trash that social stat and old age social scientists’ psyche if you want to contribute to this holy mission sagaciously.

kishnekale · Jul 25, 2009 4:28 AM