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| Saibaba_exposed | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 10:18 PM
Millions of people worship Sai Baba as God incarnate. More and more say the Indian guru is also a pedophile. By Michelle Goldberg "Sai Baba was my God -- who dares to refuse God? He was free to do whatever he wanted to do with me; he had my trust, my faith, my love and my friendship; he had me in totality," says Iranian-American former follower Said Khorramshahgol. What Sai Baba chose to do with him, Khorramshahgol says, was to repeatedly call him into private interviews and order him to drop his pants and massage his penis. Other former devotees contend Sai Baba did even more. No matter -- in this part of the world, faith is absolute. Believers don't refuse God, and they don't question him The stories about Sai Baba's sexual misconduct are all remarkably similar. "During my 'private audiences' with Sai Baba, Sai Baba used to touch my private parts and regularly massage my private parts, indicating that this was for spiritual purposes," wrote Dutchman Hans de Kraker in a letter sent to French journalist Virginie Saurel. In December 1996, when de Kraker was 24, Sai Baba allegedly asked him to perform oral sex: "He grabbed my head and pushed it into his groin area. He made moaning sounds," de Kraker wrote. "As soon as he took the pressure off my head and I lifted my head, Sai Baba lifted his dress and presented me a semi-erect member, telling me that this was my good luck chance, and jousted his hips towards my face." When de Kraker reported to others what had happened, he was thrown out of the ashram. American Jed Geyerhahn, who was 16 when Sai Baba started coming on to him, echoes de Kraker's account: "Each time I saw Baba, his hand would gradually make more prominent connections to my groin." The stories are endless, and endlessly alike, concerning mostly boys and men from their midteens to their mid-20s. They're not new, either. In 1970, Tal Brooke published a book called "Lord of the Air," later renamed "Avatar of Night," a vivid, detailed account of his mind-blowing days as a questing young acolyte and his total disillusionment on learning of his guru's sexual rapacity. Yet it's only recently, thanks in large part to the Internet, that various victims, their parents and defecting officials from within the Sai Organization have banded together to direct the energy they once poured into worshiping their master toward bringing the man down. It all started with a document called "The Findings," published in late 2000 by long-term devotees David and Faye Bailey, whose marriage was arranged by Sai Baba. Part of the nearly 20,000-word piece is given over to evidence that Sai Baba fakes his materializations and doesn't magically heal the sick -- revelations that seem self-evident to nonbelievers but provoke fierce debate in devotee circles and blazing headlines in the Indian press. Most of "The Findings" consists of testimony of sexual harassment and sexual abuse. "Whilst still at the ashram, the worst thing for me -- as a mother of sons -- occurred when a young man, a college student, came to our room, to plead with David, 'Please Sir, do something to stop him sexually abusing us,'" Faye writes. "These sons of devotees, unable to bear their untenable position of being unwilling participants in a paedophile situation any longer, yet unable to share this with their parents because they would be disbelieved, placed their trust in David; a trust which had built over his five years as a visiting professor of music to the Sai college." These pleas eroded the Baileys' faith and finally made them go public. Since then, the movement against Sai Baba has been snowballing. In the past few months, ex-devotees have contacted the FBI, Interpol, the Indian Supreme Court and a host of other agencies, hoping for help in their battle against the guru. A California man named Glen Meloy, who spent 26 years as a Sai devotee, is trying to organize a class-action lawsuit against Sai Organization leaders in America, modeled on the one recently launched against the Hare Krishnas. His faith was shattered when he was shown excerpts from the diary of his close friend's 15-year-old son, detailing several incidents of molestation. The child of devotees, the boy had been raised to worship Sai Baba as God, and obliged when the master reportedly ordered his disciple to suck his penis. "You've got all these kids who are scared to death to do anything that will do disrespect to their parents, in a room with someone they believe to be the creator of the whole universe," said Meloy, his voice choked with fury. "This isn't just any child abuse; this is God himself claiming to do this." 
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| Saibaba_exposed | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 10:32 PM
Experiences of an ex-Sai Baba devotee II Truth about Sathya Sai Baba! Declaration of a victim which has been sexually molested by Sathya Sai Baba Dear Sir GhanShyam Patel, A friend of mine asked me to contact you in order to share my experiences with you which I had with Sai Baba during the last ten years. Like you I have been an ardent devotee of Sai Baba for many years until I had several personal experiences with Him which changed my mind altogether. First I let you know that I have lead a spiritual life since my childhood. I had my first kundalini awakening at the age of seven and made overwhelming experiences beyond human comprehension. Later when I went to India a have met many so-called saints, yogis and avadhutas. Some of them I know very well. They are Swami Hariharananda, Sri Shivabalayogi, Rama Reddy Avadhuta, Nampally Baba, Ganapathi Sachchidananda, Amma, Karunamayi Ma, B.S. Goel and many more. This not even the ex-devotees know about me as I don´t feel any need to tell them about my spiritual life. For what reason I tell you this ? In the moment there are circulating the "The Findings" around the world as you know very well and they contain serious allegations against Sai Baba. I am one of the persons mentioned in the " The Findings" and have given a detailed description of what has happened to me. Dear Patel I assure you that everything which you can read there about me has indeed happened to me. The experiences of the ex-devotees are a honest revelations from devotees who served Sai Baba for many years, some of them even for twenty long years. Someof them have sexually been misused and everyone has a right to get informed about what is going on in Prashanti Nilayam. This people are not evil minded but rather have dedicted themselves to the truth and the path of compassion. That´s why I mentioned in the introductory part my contacts to several spiritual personalities. I want to make clear that God had His first place in my life and since my childhood I was in search for the ultimate reality (sakshatkara) and my Sadguru. Before I went to Sai Baba I practiced Kriya Yoga under the instructions of the very old Swami Hariharananda, a brother disciple of Swami Yogananda. Later Sri Shivabalayogi trained me in Dhyana. I am very thankful for all they did. In the attitude of mitra-bhava He gave me his knowledge and grace. Afterwards I met one Avadhuta near Hyderabad who lived a very exalted spiritual life and I also realized something through him. I made many other experiences but I can´t convey them to you now. Sometimes I lived at very remoted places and did dhyana. Hereby I realized that without silence and inner concentration you cannot get inner peace of mind or Turiya. I also realized the power of prayer. As I still love India and its ancient spirtual traditon I feel myself more like an Indian man. When I met Karunamyi Ma she told me personally that in my heart I am more an "bharatiyan" than many Indians who identify themselves with fame, name, money and all the bad attributes of the modern world. They pretend to be Indians but there lifes show something different. Continue..................... |
| Saibaba_exposed | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 10:33 PM
Continue....................... When I met Sai Baba I believed him to be the "Avatar" for several reaons. First of all I met many devotees who told me their countless experiences and afterwards I had some other experiences. Because of his allegedly philanthropic work I believed him to be a pure person and started to worship him. He played the most important part in my live for eight long years and I have accepted him as Guru. I never was interested to get a Interview from Swami but was happy just to see him. I had hundreds of darshans from Swami outside and inside of the mandir. I could touch his feets many times and I also got vibhuti from Him. It was blind faith and I never questioned anything! But one day I started deep inquiry about the increasing commercialisation of the ashram and the fact that every year buildings were regulary replaced by more costly ones and that other institutions consumed more than billions of rupees mainly spend by westerners. Besides I observed Swami going to Bangalore in costly cars of the big class like mercedes which costs even in Germany about 2,000,000 Rs. (20 lakhs). In the ashram is always a big hustle and I never felt good about it. Nevertheles I still accepted Swami as the avatar of the age. One day however all my adoration for him became zero when I was called to the Interview. What happened there can be read in "The Findings". I was alone in the second Interview room and he revealed his demonic nature which is full of lust. Against my will he pressed his lips against my lips and started kissing me for some time (about 20 seconds). This kind of kissing happened in several interviews. He massaged my genitals and expected an erection which did not happen. Before I had to remove my pair of trousers he pressed his open palm of his right hand at my genitals to see whether they became erect or not. As this did not happen he massaged them. But all his effort was of no avail and Swami was very disappointed. He send my out without saying a word. During this procedure he changed his nature and became very diabolic. I made several other experiences which have shown his ambivalent nature and realized that he is deceiving many innocent people who don´t know about it. I came into contact with other devotees who had similar and even worse sexual experiences and came to the conclusion that their is indeed a equal pattern of Swam´s behaviour towards his victims. First he establishes contact and checks the devotional potential of the devotee. Afterwards once he has decided to molest a person he starts by kissing the same. The next step is massaging the genitals with oil or vibhuti and finally is masturbating them. In the end he asks to do oral sex !!! This is nothing but the truth and it is for sure that also testimonies from Indians have been made who have been sexually molested through Swami even in the early seventhies. Continue.................... |
| Saibaba_exposed | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 10:34 PM
Now it becomes evident through many other testimonies that he has sexually molested and raped young boys for a very long time. This made me very sad and it broke my heart. Later I was humiliated by the Puttaparthy police and they have taken away my passport. They treated me like a criminal and have threaten me very seriouly. There is a big cover-up regarding the pedophile behaviour of Sai Baba but you can be sure that all those who have been sexually molested by Sai Baba and those who have understood his evil nature will never be silent about it for the rest of their life. Be assured! Everything will be done to expose him! You may say that we cannot understand God and anyway Sai Baba is doing many good things! My response. God never molests innocent childrens against there will and the misuse of men and kids is criminal whether the victim is aware of it or not! God is ever of supreme compassion and he never hurts anyone or break their hearts. It is clear now that he has evil motives and to cover-up the awful incidents he builds more and more buildings to distract innocent devotees from his evil motive. He wants to become more famous than Krishna and is after name and fame. A true saint and even God would never allow anyone to worship him or his pictures, he would not allow to create a cult around him being worshipped in a golden throne. God is simple, pure and full of compassion and humbleness. Now we the ex-devotees experiences that those who called us some years back as "brothers" defame us now. Where is your "prem" !!!!!! We have learned from history especially from the Third Reich under Hitler that it should never happen again that we keep silent about injustice done to thousands who suffer hereby. Dear GhanShyam Patel who ever keeps silent about what happens there in Prashanti Nilayam or the ashram makes himself guilty and if he still defends Sai Baba inspite his knowledge about all this allegations which are indeed true he becomes also a perpetrator. Everyone who knows and still supports the pedophile Sai Baba makes himself guilty. You do not know how much I suffered through all this but only a few devotees care about it. The truth might be very painful for the devotees but it has been much more painful for the victims who suffer under their traumatic experiences. But one day the truth comes out and the whole world will know that Swami is not pure and has deceived the whole world. All the sexual molestation are no act of purification no sign of allegiance or kundalini awakening. The sexual molestation is a mental and physical rape, a misuse of the lowest order as the devotees believed in Swami and their position of surrender has been exploited. After all the traumatic experiences with Swami I realized the evil and lustful nature of Swami. I don´t accepted him anymore as Guru and have dedided to inform all devotees about the truth. I am still doing my sadhana and pray daily to the Almighty Lord of Supreme Compassion to show mankind the truth. I know that my Supreme Lord never rapes young boys and only grants spiritual bliss. I know that my Supreme Lord likes a simple live and no opulence! I know that my Supreme Lord of Compassion never differentiates between the very poor and the VIP´s. He never boasts with miracles and abhors any noisy cult! Dear GhanShaym Patel I don´t know who you are whether you are a representative of the trust or not I ask you to deeply reflect about all this no matter how painful it might be and hope that the Supreme Lord of Compassion enlightens you. May you follow the truth alone no matter what are the consequences not matter what others say. Study the life of Ravidas, Kabir, Guru Nanak and Vallalar and you will see what a saint is. VALLALAR says in the Agaval: O Supreme Being! "Thou hast uttered: those who don´t know of compassion do not know of themselves and Us and of Our constitution too". However great one may be in the eyes of others, it is of no avail if one does not possess Compassion in his very being. Realising Godhead without Compassion is impossible. This is the honest and first hand account of a victim which has been sexually molested by Sathya Sai Baba. May you Patel have the strenght to accept the truth which makes you indeed great. May God bless you and your family. Kind Regards Jens Sethi |
| Saibaba_exposed | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 10:45 PM
by Hari Sampath, one of the organizers of the Danish Expose, of the effects of the showing of "Seduced." - CONTROVERSIAL DOCUMENTARY ON SAI BABA ON DANISH TV. The Sai Baba expose in Denmark is heating up, and assuming the dimensions of a big scandal. After yesterday's one hour documentary titled "Seduced" on Danish National television DR , Sai Baba has become nationally known as the pedophile fake guru of India. Several newspapers carried the story of the sensational expose documentary, in prominent columns today. The prime time news again carried reports of this documentary in most of the news editions today, with prominent religious researchers, Church leaders, and Mayors being interviewed for opinions. Several foreign embassies based in Copenhagen have called DR asking for details as well as reporting back to their respective countries. Due to the tremendous interest and reactions to yesterday's documentary, DR again decided to do a show on Sai Baba today. Jorgen Trygved, one of the most prominent members of the Sai Baba organization was returning from overseas today, and DR caught up with him at the airport. He went straight to the TV studios and was put on live on a program. He was given an opportunity to defend these allegations against Sai Baba, with a telephone line open to the public, on prime time. Jorgen Trygved stuck to the usual line of SB followers, saying that these charges were just the imagination of a few people and internet rumours. Then the news program played clips of Jed Geyerhahn, Sam Young etc, and asked Jorgen Trygved what he had to say to all this. Jorgen Trygved tried to avoid the question, but was forced to admit on national television that Sai Baba did indeed fondle the genitals of young men, but that was for their own good, and for "energy transformation". CCG member of exposé Ole Alstrup ( who, along with Anders Thisted, was one of the prime moving forces behind the Danish developments), called the live show by phone, and cornered Trygved by questioning him whether he had ever spoken to any one victim at least. Trygved was forced to admit he had not , and had to say that he would do so. Alstrup further spoke to the show, detailing the extremely harmful effect that the pedophile fake guru Sai Baba has had on individuals' lives. The TV show questioned Trygved, whether he thought that the UNESCO, British Parliament, FBI, CBI, major media agencies around the world, US Dept of State ( which has issued a warning for travelers to India) etc ,were all fools to be misled for a long time by "internet rumors" by a handful of persons, and why they had taken these things seriously. Trygved could not give any satisfactory response, kept repeating himself, and ended up looking very foolish . The Mayor was interviewed, and he confirmed that the Sai Baba organization has indeed purchased a big castle in Frederiksburg, but no permission has been sought, nor given for starting any educational program. The transactions are being scrutinised, and the Mayor has said that in the event of any legal development in the Sai Baba pedophilia case, no permission will be granted, and the SB organisation's status as a Faith society will be cancelled, and also Sai Baba educational programs will not be given permissions. Other TV channels, and media agencies in Denmark and elsewhere in Europe are picking up these developments, and it appears that the SB organisation is going to be torn to pieces in the media very soon. |
| mickthesick | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 09:27 AM
.It was always obvious that Sai Baba was not a God, but a magician who could create ashes out of thin air. (Even David Blaine can do that...but at least Blaine doesn't consider himself God) Now that these truths have been coming into light....there's some chance that the ignorant worshippers will open their eyes...if they still don't trust the cries of the victims and stop worshipping Sai...then god knows who his next victim will be....it can one of our own known ones.. Gezz...what's wrong with the world now-a-days?? |
| Chheten | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 10:05 AM
It's very hard for one to abandon his/her faith just on the basis of hearsay. I’m not saying that those who’ve come forward are liars, but it does pose an interesting question. Sai baba is highly regarded in some communities, and it’s sometimes true that there are those who malign and discredit a person just because he happens to be famous. However, the devotees often fear to voice their doubts because they might be shunned in the community or because the act might confirm their worst fears. Whatever the case, if these allegations turn out to be true, I’ll feel badly for the victims, but more so for the devotees. Their denial will eventually shake their faith and their very way of life. |
| oys_chill | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 10:18 AM
.........Not to mention the infamous scandals of organ sellings and lost kidneys among the children in the 70's n 80's. I don't know if anyone has watched this indian movie called "jadugar" starring amitabh and amrish puri......such a satire it is and shows a compelling truth. This reminds me of another story recently somewhere in the news where Uri Geller "the famous spoon bender" supports Michael Jackson, his close friend, innocent of all the accusations he's facing. ......Time to hack the houses of the holy! Amen! |
| Paagal | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 11:06 AM
After reading the above posts I come to realize finally that except me all have a clear definition of God except me. Please show me where I can find the definition of God, code of conduct for Gods and ....I don't know what to say... |
| Chheten | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 12:35 PM
Paagal, I don't believe in Sai baba. My whole family is a devout follower but I've steered away from the....path of righteousness. Although, let me clarify this--I don't have a clear definition of God, and I don't think anyone really does. Well, maybe Joan of Arc or Harishchandra or Mohammed. But, I do know what that He's out there (please ignore the X-files pun). It's hard to ignore all the negativity that exists in the world today, but I think it's much more easier to appreciate the good things rather than dwell on the bad. If nothing at all, I appreciate the life He's given me. |
| the other one | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 01:12 PM
(If nothing at all, I appreciate the life He's given me.) How do you know HE gave you your life? Isnt it good enough to appreciate life withought any figure owing it to you (beside your mommy and daddy)?..and how sad that it takes something like pedophilia for people to question the holiness in a cult figure. Some may say Sai baba clan has done this good and that (hopspitals etc.), I think thats all PR bull, there are tons more of money being generated in the name of this Pedo guru..how many life wasted in misdirected faith, only if people questioned their faith...The Poem, Yatri comes into mind. |
| kumar_gurung979 | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 02:20 PM
Thanks for your exposure about this monster. I am saddened that my University called Flinders University in Adelaide is strategically allied with Sathyam Shree Sai Baba Education Foundation. Specially, the education faculty and its well known personality called Mem Fox is linked with this monster. I have to announce that Secretary of Nepal Australia Frienship Association in Adelaide under Deepak Bista is also linked with the Sai Baba cult. The secretary and her husband have adopted children from Nepal. I find all the members of this cult very obssessed in relational intrusion with children and youth with vulnerable tendencies. I spoke out about this phenomenon and got kicked out of this forum. All the God men from Father Moran to Sai Babaji are the same. Their philosophies are the same. The only question remains who is telling the truth based on reality is the issue of philosophical discourse between Aristotle and Plato in ancient times. However, for post modernity it is going to be between Kant and his followers. The prime winner will be the most convincing argument presenter to take the holy grail of the philosophy in God men and their obssessive relational intrusion over childeren and youth. Tathastu. |
| Paagal | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 02:10 AM
If I were you ( friends who criticized Saibaba ) ... Unfortunately, I'm not a follower of anybody. I have no religion but all religion. I am totally a free person because I believe the most fundamental quality of life is FREEDOM. You may call this EGOTIST. Thank you, I'm aware of that. It's my freewill. Even if a murderer who is in the jail now says something which would bring peace, joy, love, compassion, calmness I would bow down to his feet. Do you know that everyone can become a murderer, you can too, more? Because you are a very religious person, you think that way. There are thousands of religious person in the jail who were very good, kind person, may be better than you. Do you realize that? I don't know anything about Sai baba but I take just take only creams out of him to bring change in my life....That's all. |
| Paagal | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 04:24 AM
Hello! so called spiritual people... Do you realize that criticizing others is ...saying that I know better than you. Try to love yourself by understanding all - bad as well as good people. It looks like you wanted to overthrow Sai Baba and take his place. May be you're jealous that so many people are folowing him. Don't try to change the world...but change yourself. If you try you'll earn more and more conflict. You are the world for you. I just am your good friend. Can't you simply see that your energy is lost when you fight and you feel energetic when you love? Shame to so called spiritual people who are just complaining and complaining. When you complain, that is obvious you want the world your way, not the way it is going on. Let the world go how it is going. Don't be an improver...you better improve yourself. I don't blame you at all - the first experience in spiritual life is the experience of Ego. You will feel that all except you are sinner, everybody is watcing you etc. etc. Mind you, this period is very very dangerous. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 12:26 PM
I was surprised to find the extent to which Sai Baba influences Nepali people. I am completely ignorant about Sai Baba, and so won't say anything about his habit/alleged crime etc. but I have noticed that the man has considerable clout in Nepal. King Birendra died wearing the talisman given by Baba. A report published in one Nepali paper once detailed other 'dignitaries' of Nepal who visited Sai Baba: apparently there is this across the board admiration of Baba. From Army chief, to Mahesh Acharya, to journalists, to poor ones, to film makers, [even some of my family members] everyone pays respect to this Baba. There was once an attempt to give a piece of sacred land to this man's followers in Narayani, but the locals resisted, and thankfully the piece of land is for us to enjoy even now. You stay a few minutes with the supporters of this Baba and they make you believe everything your science background doesn't want you to believe: 1. One said to me that his cousin's kidney stone was cured by Baba's magical hands. 2. Another claimed to me that someone's cancer was cured. The absolute certainty with which such stories were narrated made me think over and over, and at least discouraged me to criticise Baba while in Nepal. Again, it is those who are in the wrong path have the absolute deterministic vision about the state of the world. |
| Chheten | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 12:39 PM
Ok "Other one." There was a misprint to my statement--I should've said "He/She" gave me my life. I know THAT because well, I'm alive and I appreciate the life I have. I do believe in a higher power but not in any specific religion. I think religion is the cause of all agony. And by HE, I didn't mean Sai baba. I think I've already made it clear that I don't believe in him. |
| porcelina | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 12:56 PM
it is such a pity that so many of us nepali people are so blind. its such a pity that while these so-called money crazed and sex crazed 'baba's' of 'spiritual' cults drive around in their rollsroyces with their 'jogini's', we donate our houses, our lands, our hard earned cash to their 'holy' movement. we leave our homes, neglect our families; we go looking for 'moksha' while we dont know what our children do after school. yes, i have seen that movie 'jadugar' with amitabh bachhan, and it does the perfect job of exposing these frauds. does osho rajneesh ring a bell, anyone? you know, the one who preached free sex and eventually died of aids. yeah, him. signing off, porcelina |
| the other one | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 01:25 PM
"does osho rajneesh ring a bell, anyone? you know, the one who preached free sex and eventually died of aids. yeah, him." Osho at least practiced what he preached with money and sex, instead of inducing or should I say seducing Kundalini by playing with little boys penis, could be that wearing a condom was not as freeier a sex as he fathomed so he succumed to AIDS. I see Osho more as a philosopher since reading one of his books (Finger pointing to the moon) than a chatakkar or a "God". Chettan, your point well taken, although the higher power you mention I do question, but thats a personal question we all like to tinker with. |
| Paagal | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 01:37 PM
t is such a pity that so many of us nepali people are so blind. I think you consider yourself four eyed because you're wearing glasses. Check it buddy! You've only two... |
| porcelina | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 01:58 PM
pagaal ji, you're not making any sense to me. 'the other one' ji, you said you have read a book or 2 of rajneeshes, well so have i. and i have also read various papers and articles in magazines like the readers digest etc, (which would, to my knowledge, print credible articles). do you know that he was actually kicked out of the states for allegedly trying to 'create' some kind of a virus. i hear they (him and his supporters) virtually owned parts of oregon. he might have practiced what he preached, but didn't HIS philosophy kill him? my bitterness in him lies on a long history of personal pain, loss and the sorrow of close family members and it was all because of him and his suppoters. we should all join to expose these people... god knows how many peoples lives they have ruined. |
| Deep | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 02:05 PM
Biswas bhanne kura anautho chha, heri aba ke garne? bharat ko a r rehman bhanne sangeetkar ni heri paila dilip kumar thyo re--poora pariwar ni garibiko marma parya --anta ek choti rehman ko baini ta sikista bhaichhin--aausadhi mulo le chhoyena re---tyas pachhi ek jana muslim farkir le "la ma timro baini lai thik pardinchhu timaru jammai muslim hune ho bhane" bhanera bhanda hudi dilip kumar pariwarle "hawas" bhane chhan. pachhi betha ta chwattai rey baini ko. tyaspachhi dilip kumar pariwar muslim bhaye are--ani bro chai a r rehman bhako re--allah rakha rehman rey. maile sunya-- bhanesi biswas bhanya tyasto ke---science jaye bhad me re kya. |
| le chef du nuit | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 02:19 PM
porcelina jyu the reader's digest is not a very good publication when it comes to discussing any worldview or morality other than fundamental american protestant any guy who espouses a free sex ethic and lives by it would naturally be considered abhorrent according to this worldview, what with the stories of decadent sodomon and gommorrah, and the whore of babylon the dude dies of aids coz it want known that unprotected sex was the means of transmitting aids.. or that a disease called aids even existed so no, he wasnt driven outt the states coz the was trying to make a virus, and if a reader's digest article says any different, its blatanly lying and please dont say 'but ppl here are accountable and responsible'. dont be so naive not trying to be an ass here, but maybe your sorrow arises because your family members went for the free sex and drugs, without realizing the conciousness change and responsibility one MUST bear if one is to truly live by rajneesh's philosophy |
| the other one | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 03:04 PM
Porcelina ji, I know what you mean by his philosophy treading him to his death, but he was a real figure in Indian/religious Philosophy, where he did have to climb up to the top of academic ladder instead of being prescribed to a higher power by default (like Sai baba), I think he was more into Jain/Buddhist philosophy before he tried to buy off the western groupies or the groupies bought him through worst of his temptations and sex, wealth and guns became an extension to his philosophy to enlarge the Groupies money making deal (whoever was engineering this)…in the same manner, when he was partaking his philosophy in some town in Texas I think, there was going to be an election, and they wanted to have one of the Osho members be elected, so their plan was to rig the vote by poisoning most of the townspeople right before the election by contaminating the food with anthrax like virus where a lot of the laypeople would go eat. But Osho knew nothing of this and he was just booted India, but few of his followers who were directly involved did go to jail.I feel like he was taken advantage of thats all. |
| Paagal | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 05:43 PM
Sai Baba or Osho both have changed / helped thousands of people to bring light into their life. I want to ask what have you done in life to help ? Have you changed anyone helping to bring joy/happiness in their life ? It seems you haven't helped yourself so that's the first job. I want to emphasize here that if I were you, I would take the best out of them and use them in my life rather than complain about them. Who is going to hear you, after all? |
| kingkong | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 06:19 PM
osho didn't die of aids u know it all people u know what exactly killed him? it was the arsenic that was fed into his system in small doses by fbi/cia when he was being transferred to various jails all over usa during reagan adminstration. and just to let u guys know he never had sex with anyone its correct that he professed freedom for sex, however he never consumated in the act and most importantly he is not god he is a teacher acharya rajnish its those moronic followers of him who started to call him bhagwan rajnish after his death |
| psychodreamer | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 06:41 PM
"King Birendra died wearing the talisman given by Baba." Biswo , are you sure about this or its just scarsam. I know you are a good writer but you should not let your antimanarchy sentiment take over your writings all the time. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 08:14 PM
Psychodreamer: >I know you are a good writer Thanks for the compliment. Obviously, there are a lot of better writers too:-) >but you should not let your antimanarchy sentiment > take over your writings all the time. Rest assured, I don't. The following report in Nepali Times immediately after , actually a memoir by Dr Upendra Devkota, should convince you what I said. http://www.nepalnews.com.np/ntimes/june22-28-2001/chhauni.htm Please read the first paragraph, fourth line: I was shown into the hall and taken to the first patient on the left. He was extremely pale, blood-splattered beige kamij and suruwal, grey hair, a Sai Baba locket around his neck, he was being ambulated. I didn’t know who this patient was, but I knew from a distance that he was lifeless. I looked at his eyes, felt his pulse, and said he’s gone. .. The same report was also in the New Yorker a few weeks late, if I remember correctlyr. |
| saibaba_exposed | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 08:23 PM
Thank you all for your responses. I could not believe myself when I read all your responses. I was expecting lot of hate mails and postings but I am happy to see that there are few among us who don't want to believe in something or someone just because they are being asked to belive by our society. Few days ago I ran into bunch of websites which were dedicated to unviel the unholy pedophilic deeds of Sai Baba. I was so shocked to read those postings. For few days I studied more in detail all those molestation cases, letters of the victims, kidney smuggling cases, murder of 6 Sai College students (Victims of Sai's Molestation) in Sai Baba's bedroom who carried an unsuccessful attempt to kill sai baba and lots of other cases. I suggest the readers to read Tal Brooke's "Avatar of Night" , watch the British Documentry "Guru Busters" where they have edited frame by frame video of Sai Baba's trick of materialising a Gold Watch and gifting it to the then PM P.V Narshima Rao in a funtion. Sometime I wonder why all the poors get "Bivuti" (holy ash) and the riches get the Gold Ornaments?!!! There are bunch of sites you could find on the internet. Just type the key word "Sai Baba, Pedophile". 
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| kingkong | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 08:35 PM
i am not sure but what i heard from people who has seen in person he is a eunich |
| AT | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 08:47 PM
Osho did not die of AIDS. He was kicked out of the States for violation of Immigartion Laws. He established his own town named Rajneeshpuram in Oregon. |
| SaiBaba_exposed | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 09:04 PM
Dear Friends, Please visit this site and click on the link "MOVIES" http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/english.html Look how Sai Baba performs as a Bad Magician and cheats the whole world. Some really stupid tricks caught on Tape. |
| le chef du nuit | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 11:08 PM
"he never had sex with anyone its correct that he professed freedom for sex, however he never consumated in the act " whaaa? now where didja get that from? some people actually believe sex is a good thing why are people so fkking puritanical? |
| le chef du nuit | Posted
on 23-Jan-04 11:09 PM
not the kind sai baba stands accused of, though thats just sick |
| peda | Posted
on 24-Jan-04 01:19 AM
I take these news with a pinch of salt- not that I am a follower of any particular cult. Paedophilia is a big news in Western society and I believe if anybody indulges in these things, they should be prosecuted. Those with proves, should come forward. I have read some of Saibaba's teachings and the messages are good and less discriminatory than some of other- so called better religions. It does not seem to have untouchables and the concept of holy war in it. I am not trying to argue anything as my knowledge is limited to reading these things in the literature. I do not have any first hand experience. Few pointsfrom the teaching: Believe in God --for there is only ONE GOD for all mankind, though He may be called by many names. Follow sincerely their respective religions and live their daily lives in consonance with the teachings of good behavior and morality. Respect all other religions --for no religion advocates the negative and lower qualities of man. Perform selfless service to the poor, the sick, and the needy without thought of reward or fame. Cultivate in their lives the values of truth, divine love, right conduct, peace, and nonviolence and promote these values among all. Be patriotic and respect the laws of the country in which they live. |
| Paagal | Posted
on 24-Jan-04 03:54 AM
Dear friends.. Little knowledge is dangerous, it is said. What I have experienced is - the knowledge we acquire nowadays make us expert in debating only. Expert in promoting our Ego - I know better than all. The best knowledge is to understand all and bring more and more happiness/joy calmness in onself. While opposite is happenning. There are so many people who want to prove Osho wrong by condemning free sex while in their heads, it is going on twenty four hours a day, Because of one's ego he/she does not realize that. I have read so many books about Osho, he is a great mystic, I found. First of all, one has to free oneself from ego of knowledge. In that respect, knowledge is more dangerous. Current days, degrees only make us more egotist, more expert in debating, cleverer to acquire more money making us more miserable....restless mind. |
| porcelina | Posted
on 24-Jan-04 11:11 AM
hey paagal, you have no idea what you are talking about. you might have read his books, but you have no clue what the guy was all about. i could write a book on art, but that would not make me an artist. i hope you understand what i am trying to imply here. and you know what?? i'm not going to waste my time explaining anything to people like you. only personal experience will teach you, and i sincerely hope you wont have to go through anything like that. i have, through personal interest, been in touch with many unfortunate family members of followers of rajneesh, and not a single one of them is happy at all. le chef de nuit jyu, i am very bitter when it comes to rajneesh, and even though his followers are everywhere by the thousands, it does not scare me. and why would you suppose that the readers digest is not a very trustable source? i suggest you find and read a book called 'the god that failed' to widen your literary horizons. its very hard to get in kathmandu, because as soon as any puiblication comes out, rajneeshes follwers seize all copies. ciao! |
| porcelina | Posted
on 24-Jan-04 11:12 AM
paagaal ji, likewise. little knowledge IS a very dangerous thing. maybe you should think about it. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 25-Jan-04 07:49 AM
Some old discussions on Sai Baba in Kurakani.. Thread: Satya Sai Baba: Authi, necklace .. and facts behind it Date:25 Dec 2001 - http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=2832&dsn=sajhaarchive Thread:Satya Sai Baba Date: 2 Dec 2002 - http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=8275&dsn=sajhaarchive Thread:Memory Lane: Pulp Fiction! Date: 12 Nov 2003 - http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=13146&dsn=sajhaarchive2003 |
| Paagal | Posted
on 25-Jan-04 11:33 AM
Thank you Porcelina jee for enlightening me. I praise Osho/SaiBaba/Jesus/Krishna/Mohmmed doesn't mean that I'm following them. I know that my FREEDOM is what I love most. By freedom, I mean free from religion, society, neighbours etc.. But, I only take the best from great Gurus, to use in my life to make my life happier/better. I want to become less and less judging. I am not a teacher but always a learner. Better is to take the best out of them : I liked Osho's message " You are totally responsible for all your joy/sorrow" Sai Baba " Your thoughts depend upon the food you eat " Jesus " Blessed are the meek ones " Krishna " One can be free from fear, worry and grief if you know or understand God/Nature" Mohmmed "Before sending every man to earth, God whispered into his/her ears that I made you very specially" Buddha is the greatest scientist of mind. Mind is restless because of passions/desires. If you can take only the creams out of everyone, you'll benefit more...Porcelina...Dear friend. |