Daboo

 

 

We fully understand the conquering and marauding ambition of PNS and of kings and warriors of that time, but what is starling is the same attitude and complexes of the same people, just a modern version of this age old defunct thinking.

 

 

It is not enough only by understanding conquering and marauding ambition. Nepal was not created only by conquering and marauding ambition of PNS .  It is also because of the clumsy and out of date management of city states by then kings. If those kings had managed and changed their city states according to the need of that time PNS may have failed. Don’t forget that PNS father failed twice   conquering Nuwakot.  Like many others developed cultures/society collapsed because they failed to change with time. PNS had strategy; he learned the weakness/strength of the City states by living in Bhaktapur at the age of nine. That is what happened to Gynandra. He failed trying to imitate Mahendra. Gyanandra failed to understand that Mahendra’s time was different than BS 2060. Same strategy and thinking doesn’t work in different era. PPl of Gorkha loved PNS; they were ready to die for him. PPL of KTM valley was fed up with their kings. Now you see the ppl power. In present day same thing happening in Egypt but Mubarak failed to understand that when  your own countrymen are against you nobody can save you.

 

Please try to look at the both sides of the coin, don’t blame or give credits by seeing only one side.  (Btw I am not from Gorkha nor are my ancestors)

 

Per your assertion if the “ruling elite” and the “learned people” did nothing to undermine the newah language and culture of Kathmandu Valley but rather supported it as the premier cultural and historic identity of the Nepalese people then I do not know why it would in such a precarious condition and the people does not care about it.

 

That is what you think but check it with reality

1. How many Newah festivals are given national importance compared to other culture in Nepal?? So many Newa Jatras are preserved till date, Indra Jatra, Gai Jatra, Kumari, Matyaa, Matsindranath, bala charey, ghya chaku, shree panchami, Bisket Jatra, sithi nakha, quati punhi, are wide spread. In a multicultural society why don’t you learn about festivals of other cultures? Who did that your "khas " friends in power and "conqurrer" of KTM valley did that. At the time of PNS you guys were not in a positin to demand PNS to celebrate you  culture nor the norms of the time was asking respect the culture of conquered society. Instead at that time the winner used to loot the ppl and destroy their culture. PNS did not do that why? on the top of that after PNS wining the KTM he went directly to sit in the “Raj Sihasan” to claim the victory BUT a group of newars said “yeah you win but we will accept you as our king only if Kumari accepts you and put tika in your forehead, he had two options, either immediately kill those Newars and claim the “Sihasan” or avoid the bloodshed as much as possible. He took the risk and went to Kuamri asking for tika, Kumari gave tika and Prasad (which is also equivalent to “sagun” he came back and claim the victory. That is what is called respect and acceptance. Your ancestors and culture already accepted PNS why are you complaining now?  
2. Next day there was some small program but a group of newars were afraid whether to celebrate those festivals or not. Because what they had experience from past KINGS (their own king) is that if you do something King doesn’t like he will punish you. They were sitting near present day mahankal stahan, PNS’s  Sipoy saw that and reported to PNS. PNS asked bring them to him. All Newars were afraid thinking that now he will kill us. They were presented to PNS, PNS asked why you ppl have sad face, why were you sitting there? They said we will go home, it was our mistake, but PNS insisted they tell him the truth, finally one told him that today is next day of Indra Jatra our group celebrate by playing music etc. Then PNS said then why are not you celebrating today? Who is stopping you? They couldn’t believe it and return to celebrate after doing jay jaikar of PNS. Now that is what I called respect of the people.
3. When kings of patan and ktm fled to Bhaktapur and take asylum there. Don’t you think that he had enough power to "conquer"  ( in you word) Bhakatapur but he waited, first because king of Bhakatapur was his “mit ba” at the same time he was equally aware of the fact that a country was not divisible between brothers and mit ba’s because country belongs to its people. Second he wanted much less bloodshed so after almost a year or so of blockade it was economically week the spirit of the ppl was low he took this opportunity to take Bhaktapur with much less bloodshed.
4. During  taking of Bhaktapur all three kings were in one room, if he had hatred towards his enemy he could have asked his soldiers to kill them or inorder to create the fear among the people of Katmandu valley he could have executed them in public ( remember those days it was common practice and it is still a common practice in many countries) But no, he said don’t disturb them only a king will deal with kings, and he went to the room said hello to his “mit ba” and requested to accept his win, (but mit ba was still in mood to fight)  and asked their desire how they want to spend rest of their life?  He tried to fulfill their desire. King of Patan didn’t spoke at all so he kept him in prison where he died later.  Now this is what I call bravery, humanity and greatness for the winning King of that time. And still ppl think PNS was a conqueror
5. At the time of PNS king of Patan was just a puppet. The city was ruled by 6 Pradhans. PNS knew it so he offered them a very lucrative deal for accepting him as a ruler, they readily accepted that. But after taking Patan next day he ordered the beheading of Pradhasns and their extended families. You may be surprised,  why he order beheading of the those pradhans> those were the treacherous  of the country , for money and post they were selling their country to PNS, A brave man will die fighting but never sell his country. Now that is what I call statesmanship. I wish those type of treacherous will be punished severely by govt these days too.
6. Bad side of PNS, cutting of nak and chultho of men and women of Bhaktapur, I don’t like it but if we look at the practice of punishment of that time it was bit humiliative but milder.

 

So what Newars (you wanted to be Newar first so I am writing Newars, sorry to those who wanted to be Nepali first) lost as a result?

 

1. Newar kings (actually it can not be considered as a loss because they were out of fashion already)
2. Newar festivals were kept intact; I don’t remember PNS prohibiting any Newar culture or practice.
3. Use of  Nepal sambat, it was replaced by saka sambat, Nepal sambat was lunar one, it was replaced by solar saka sambat ( traditional saka sambat was lunar but it was changed later to tropical solar sambat)  changed
4. Official use of Newari language ( by reading the history of that time it seems that very few official work was needed at that time) and kings were using Maithali language too ( see my previous post) and their book keeping was done by Jhas from some other state ( see my previous post). If you keep book keeping in Nepali language then you can’t not ask Englishmen to update your book keeping, similarly at that time too looks like bookkeeping used to be in Maithali language.

  

BUT……BUT hey when a winner accepts many things of you then isn’t it the courtesy of yours to accept something from winners? Won'tt hat make win win situation? Where in the world it says that you have to accept everything of a state which lost during the war???

It was the responsibility of the ppl of valley at that time to learn and respect the culture or practice of PNS.

PNS wins and tries to create modern nation by unifying city states which were almost treated as family property at that time. Instead of complaining the Mallas who failed to modernize and used state wealth for their personal use you complain PNS being conqueror doesn’t that sound funny? PNS accepts many things from valley but changes two things language and Sambat you guys complain again. Look what happened to the “badsah” of Delhi, he died in a dungeon in Burma this was the practice of that time.

 

Things changes with time those ppl who changes with time survive who don’t vanish isn’t that the theory of survival of the fittest??

Let me give you some example

 

Sheikh Mohammed Ibrahim and Ganga Dhar  Neharu both were from Kashmir one was muslin another was Brahmin Nehru got their family name from the word Nahar  (canal) they used to live near a Nahar in Kashmir Sheikh remained in Kashmir Neheru family moved to UP. Sheikh families are still holding politics in Kashmir, his son Sheikh Abdullah , grand son Farooq Abdullah and great grand son Omar Abdullah  are known locally only.

Nehru family moved to UP, accepted local culture entered into politics and become world renowned,. His daughter married to a Persian guy called Feroz Gandhi (son of Jehangir Faredoon) he was adopted by Mahatma Gandhi to make it possible to marry Indira Gandhi (Nehru was against Indira marrying a Persian) so, from Persian he became Gandhi  His son Rajiv married to Italian and the present guy is Barun Gandhi and still holding in power. What Barun has in his blood is Nehru/Persian/Italian genes. Which culture he should follow? If he doesn’t follow Persian culture should he be treated like Shantipriya by Persians?? Or should he follow Brahmin culture or if he doesn’t follow Brahmin culture should he be treated like Shantipriya again? Or he should follow Italian culture?? Tell me my friend why those people who move and change frequently according to the need of time survived and rule. Others were either limited locally like Abdulhha or were disappeared.

 

Culture is not only “Jatras” and “bhoj” and “mandirs” culture is also how you behave and how much you respect other culture. Language is for communication but sorry to say that I have found it a common practice among Newars to speak their language even others in the group don’t understand Newari this is very offensive in every western country where we love to immigrate (I know you will be angry with me because looks like you don’t like to listen something not sugary about your language).

Please don’t let your culture control your life. Culture is good only when it helps to flourish you among the international communities but if it holds you back then forget about culture.

Newar kids will not be able to drink alcohol from childhood in few yrs time; I don’t have to tell you the common practice of so called civilized world I think this will be coming within 10-15 yrs in Nepal. Please don’t complain at that time.

BTW why don’t you try to celebrate Bisket jatra in US, drink alcohol and celebrate it all night, who is stopping you “Khas”? US is a free country isn’t it? Try to do that then you will understand how much you have to respect the feelings of a majority.

 

I was in Israel religiously both Muslim and Jews don’t eat pork but still you can buy pork in Israel and in Jerusalem why?? Because there are Christian and they eat Pork,

 

I was in Malaysia, which is a Muslim country by constitution but you can buy pork there and pork farming is also there why?? This is because Chinese live there and they eat pork

 

 In KTM too I envisage that in few yrs time in Ason a meatshop selling Ranga, khasi, kukhura and gai ko masu in the same place. Because in KTM now we have enough christens, Mongolians and Muslims. Cow is no more our national animal and its not good idea to say “mata” to an animal (historical significance of preserving cow for milk is not justifiable any more) so do not complain if you are a Hindu. Change is coming and in the name of your culture you can’t prohibit practices of other cultures.

 

BTW according to our history 300 Muslim families were invited to do business in ktm valley by Ratna Malla, but I don’t see any mosque made during Malla period and were they allowed to slaughter cow or not in Newar culture, if not why?? If yes give me a proof. You are so proud of your culture and feel so much about your culture but what about those Muslims and their practices?

 

Another fact:  I agree, you agree that during early to mid Malla period it was another golden era of Katmandu valley lots of people from different states (non Newars) must have come to valley to enjoy its economic flourish like we do by immigrating to rich countries these days. What happened to their culture why so called rich culture had no place for other cultures? From the previous post there were so many Jhas were invited to ktm valley but why we had to wait democracy to know about “Chhat” why so called culturally rich period had no place for it?? Is there any proof that during Newari cultural climax other cultures were equally respected??

 

One more interesting thing: Do you think that during Newar era everyone who lived in valley were Newars??  Were not there non Newars living? If no give me a proof, if yes what about their culture and why not the culture of other ppl was not allowed to flourish??

 

Why in the middle of “Newar basti” Tamangs have their gods?  Do you know those places?? Do you have any idea why Tamnag places of celebrations were converted in Newar worship places, at that time there was enough empty lands for Malla kings to preserve Tamangs place of celebration and build new places for Newari cultural celebration. You are talking about how so called “khas” destroyed your culture snatched your land but what others are saying about Newars you know, go Tamnag site and read what they are saying.

Yeah I know according to you whatever others say is rewriting the History and whatever you say is  only the truth, may be you are direct descendent of “Udhistar” from Mahabharat.

It is equivalent of saying “what you have achieved is by luck and what I have achieved is by hard work”

 

You complain what  so called “khas” have destroyed Newari culture but look how many temples were destroyed in 1936 earth quake almost all of them were rebuild and I was talking with my relatives according to him most of the temples were renovated in Rajyabhisek. King Birendra spent lots of money renovating those temples.

 

You say so much about Guthis yeah there were Guthis and everything. In fact what happened to most of the Guthi you know?? Before Guthi sasthan was established lots of Newars already converted into personal land in 2019 napi.  It was then when Royal family realized that there are so many lands in the name of Guthi so they created Guthi sansthan. Most of the Guthi land was still being planted by Newars but the Hakims, Royal Palace and Newars combinely conspirated and turn into personal land leaving little land in the name of Guthi. Don’t blame only others, please have enough courage to take some responsibility also.

And don’t ask me from where I know this, you said I only do cut and paste I am not copying and pasting this time but it is written some where you find yourself.

 

Now you may have realized how important is cut and paste, how important is verifying your argument by giving the source. In this case also you could have easily got the source of my information, you had to play smart don’t you. Therefore please don’t try to write something which backfires, be open minded.

And FYI you know what?  My mother organized a campaign to rebuild two small temples in the middle of Newar basti, the Newar community living there are mostly Prdhans and Rajbhandaries. Those two small temples partially collapsed may be around 15 yrs ago in a rainy season and they stayed like that for 5 yrs no one took initiative to rebuild them. They were rebuild in 2002 and now the “shilapatra” bears then name of my father, mother and my sister along with some other donors. And I am very proud of her action. 

 

Every culture /societies have good points as well as bad points you guys are always forward so many good points about Newari culture,  now I challenge you to write some bad points about Newari culture, can you do that??, No culture is perfect you know that ?? 

French culture is also famous for their culinary I was in France we were having dinner with French counterparts as a curtsey I was praising the food and you know what French guy said? He said actually French cuisine is overrated; we decorate our food nicely that’s all. I took it as his modesty. Our culture is this and that “bhandai aru ko culture chaina bhandai  hidne” ? A well cultured person never does that.

  

7. Most of the Newari cultural sites are world heritage

8. A well cultured persons loves his culture and respects others and always tries not to harm other culture
9.  In previous post lots of ppl from Madhes came to live in Katmandu valley but Newari culture engulf them entirely, poor guys call themselves Newars now, tell me how many Newar Jhas, Mishras and and Kayetha’s are there and why Newari cultures rooted out their identity ?

 

The lip-service of calling newah Culture as “NEPALI CULTURE” is being rendered and taken credit for but nothing is done to save it as our national treasure. One wants hand one needs the credit but do not want to care for. What hypocricy!

 

Give me a break nothing is done to save??  Most of the temples are rebuilt many times, declared world heritage sites, official celebration of festivals are nothing?? What I have observed in 2011 tourist year of Nepal is there so many Newari culture sites were advertised but none of them says anything about Janaki temple in Jnakpur why so? We can attract many religious tourists from India and fulfill the shortage of Indian currency but no, mostly Newari sites only. You are right, we need to change the mentality of government officials we should give equal importance to tourist side of every religion not only Newars. Also in History books there used to be so many materials about Shah and Malla kings now as I quoted someone in my previous post we should put material about Simraunghad, Sindhulighadi, Makawanpurghadai and kings of that area. But by doing this history book will be very thick and we will be adding burdens to kids so to make balance we should remove some materials about Shah and Malla kings.

And regarding lip service, what do you expect from others?  They should leave there culture and start to get dissolved in Newari culture?? Like ppl in Malla era did?? Sorry friend ppl don’t do that in republic Nepal, the attention and focus what Newari culture getting is already much more than other cultures in Nepal. As a well cultured person I enjoy many cultures, Newai cultures is one of my favorite. I participate in their festivals enjoy their food and say thank you that is what a person can do.  But if you say LIP service to my and other ppls genuine liking of Newari culture then thank you, we will stop participating and enjoying  it. This is the same attitude of Newari ppl who scared away the customer by saying “Timiley yo kindaina” so they started to by from Madhesi/Indian ppl. Can’t you do better than that?

 

Remember cultures used to be part of the life long ago, these days in every civilization priorities have changed , you may have experienced this in you own family. Today’s norms are different and in this era you are scaring away ppl who like your culture by saying it’s just a LIP service?? What a lame thought. By saying so you are not helping Newari culture but pushing away the ppl who like to participate. Don’t you have common sense or what? By reading your answer I realize that common sense is not common to all.

You can not even understand and differentiate what is genuine and what is fake?

 

May be you are very happy when a white guy comes and does PhD in Newari culture and says something good. But you fail to understand that he is doing so to fulfill his educational commitment. They come not only to Nepal but to many different countries and cultures do PhD and most of them become professor of oriental/Asian culture in universities of their country that’s all. Do you really think they really loved Newari culture?? If yes you must be naïve. Anyone who is studying other culture praises it that’s common thing, general curtsey but to really make your Newar culture vibrant you need your countrymen, don’t forget that.

 

To be truthful if you believe that the ruling elite and their surrogates honestly did nothing to block and stifle its development and well-being then I think we do not understand each other of our grievances and we can never resolve this as you see no fault done. Is this the respect you are talking rendered either by PNS or his fans.

 

In this I don’t blame you. Some ppls brain is quick in capturing negative side. You failed to see positive side and those side means nothing to you then it is your problem not others.

Just to clarify you know what is the sexiest part of human’s body? It is brain my fiend. If the brain doesn’t think about sex other sexual organs in our body will not understand what sex is. Similarly your grievances originates form your brain. If you fail too see positive side then you will have grievances only. Get out of that and try to see positive side then your grievances will go away,

 

I understand that in America people like to call themselves almost Americans, but I also hear that there are Jewish American (not American Jews), Native American, (not American natives) or Asian America (not America Asians) or Mexican American and so on and so forth, do you get the gist? Why is it so in America?

 

What I wanted to say is during the introduction they never say Jewish American for themselves they say American only. An Indian won’t say I am Asian Americans but he will say American. They say Asian American or Mexican American (usually grouped under Latinos). We do that in Nepal too and are a common practice everywhere for census. A Jew guy will always say I am American, and then if you want further classification he will say American Jew but never Jewish American when introducing himself ( I don’t live in US, those guys living in US please correct me if I am wrong)

But you are right in one thing Native American say I am Native American not American native. BUT I had not included this in my previous post.

You see how selfish is your brain, it only sees through a narrow window, broaden the horizon my friend societies are moving faster than you think, don’t be left behind.

 

You, my friend, may keep calling yourself ‘NEPALI” only if you do not know where you have come from, do not have any ancestry, or are you ashamed to call yourself out and say you have no heretage. We Newars are proud of our heritage and want to be called Newar Nepalese ot Newar American in America where the constitution of America supports and acknowledges unlike in Nepal.

 

Yes I will call myself Nepali before anything else and for your information I