Posted by: _____ February 9, 2011
No "NEWARI" Please !!!
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Very interesting thread so many interesting things going on.  Looks like I came to this thread bit late.

There are many things going on in this thread side by side so I don’t know from where to start but let me try to contribute by replying to the points which are obliviously flawed

  

To Daboo

 My question to you will be; had he respected the Newar Culture and the people who created this Culture he would not have attacked the valley in the first place. Many a travelers from far and wide came to see and appreciate the renowned Newah culture but this PNS came with a strong desire to conquer, rule and own it. His numerous repeated attacks on the valley is proof to his insatiable and marauding desire to conquer the people and rule over them and own all the riches and try his best to rename the culture in his name, which unfortunately persists to this very day.

 At the time of PNS it was era of creating new country, expanding existing countries those practice was in the state of decline but was not considered “bad”.  Please read the history of contemporary world for situation of that time. Even the Malla kings were always fighting with each other for small piece of land here and there. Secondly Malla rajyas at that time were very badly managed. Patan was being ruled by Pradhan mafia, Katmandu Jayasthiti Malla treated Katmandu as its personal property. It is not enough space to show every example here but if you read the history book written by renowned scholars you will find it. So they were perfect prey> PNS was there just at right time, that’s all.

The Kingdome of PNS was Gorkha not Nepal, after conqueerring valley he didn’t named it gorkha instead he accepted the advance culture and the country as Nepal not as Gorkha in other word he assimilated himself in the culture of valley (also called Nepal khaldo even at the time of PNS). I don’t find any culture of Katmandu valley (Nepal khaldo) was renamed after PNS or Gorkha

In his dibya upadesh he even said if you need entertainment listen to music and other cultural programs of newars. That is called appreciation and respect. Now how much do you respect your Newah culture how many “Newah pyakha” you have in your collection and how many Hindi songs in your collection? I don’t know where you are but Newari culinary is very famous if you are in US tell me how many times you eat Newari food?

 

One more point I don’t know what is your age, if you are not married and student try to misbehave, disorganize and stay clumsy you will know how other ppl will take advantage of you. And if you have a family of your own, try to create mess in your family and you will know how other ppl will destroy your family.

Same thing happened to Mallas, situation was changing ppl wanted to move on but those kings were running country like a personal property (for this read once again the history books written it is not possible to quote many pages from books here). Present day example is Egypt. Good ally to America, and Israel but the ruler failed to meet the ppl aspiration they simply want change.

You are very much confused by the word Nepal even though geographically Nepal was divided into small principalities, Gorkha was still Gorkha but the valley had no separate name, valley was called Nepal ( and Nepa in Nepal Bhasa )  After the death of Akchya Malla the Nepal was divided into there Rahjyas (city states) among his three sons. The name Nepal was known from ancient time long before PNS.

 

I like the idea of Shantipriya. If you fight the right war in wrong way you will loose.  

By the way I am neither shah, thakuri nor supporter of Monarchy in Nepal)

 

It is because of this also that PNS saved his ass agreeing to the Sagauli Sandhi in 1816. giving away some land in the west and east to the East India company in return to rule over rest of Nepal at will. The gorkhas still harbor the dream of owning “The Greater
Nepal” – what a BS.

Its good that you want to participate in debate but before that you need to read. PNS did not do Sugauli sandhi it was different time. But this point is saying something even after PNS time it was fashion that one country  colonize other. Among lots of so called civilized European country it was good idea. But now colonizing (of that type) is considered as crime.

You  have to understand society /civilization changes with  time Yesterdays norms are wrong today and today’s norms will be wrong tomorrow.

 Friend, you are NEWAR first and then Nepalese, and so are the rest of the people of Nepal, Tamang first and then Nepalese. Khas-bahun first and then Nepalese, and so on and so forth. Do not be taken away by the Khas propaganda that has created

  

This is just opposite of what is happening in so called first world. In US except for few first generation US citizens almost all call themselves “American” first and later on if you asked more they will say my parents were from so and so country. Same is true in many European countries. Even many first generations American proudly say I am American. When I was in Canada trying to get a taxi outside the airport I was welcomed by a “Sikh” opening the door of his taxi and saying welcome to Canada,  my country.

 Daboo,

If you are a US citizen next time if someone ask then please say I am “Newah “  and don’t say I am American . And forget about saying I am Nepali because according to you “Nepali” is a word of conqueror of “Newah”. In US (which you guys love to immigrate) you are American first then somebody else.   This is the practice in almost every country. Even  a guy from south India says I am Indian first and then Tamil, if he is from Tamilnadu. But in Nepal you suggest to do opposite.

Dude understand what’s going on around you. What is the flow, which way civilization is heading? Looks like you are trying to swim against the current

 

Is there anyone else out there who has a grasp of what “NEPALI” culture is or what “NEPALI” language is all about. I am waiting to hear for a good argument. Anyone.?

If you can find American culture then you will find Nepal culture too. No “Khas” has said only their culture as Nepali culture; can you show me a proof? Newari culture, in books, or in advertisement and for tourist were portrayed as Nepali culture by your so called “Khas”  friends but thanks to the republic Nepal  not only “Newah” culture is Nepali culture but Sherpa, Madhesi,  Tharu and khas   cultures are also Nepali culture now . May be you wanted KTM valley to celebrate only Newah culture, may be you are not happy that Madhesi people celebrating “Chhat” in KTM

 

On the top of that the title of this threads “No Newari” please and as far as understand what chana tarkari   trying to say is Newari Bhasa is not Newari Bhasa it is Nepali Bhasa

 

What happened here is so called “khas” who don’t like to be called “khas” (that is great in my opinion) were unknowingly saying language of Newari people as “newari bhasa” and CT’s point is “hey it is not Newari Bhasa it is also “Nepali Bhasa” that’s it . I see positive point here. In my opinion both CTs and others are saying same thing. In CTs version call “Newari bhasa as Nepali Bhasa” we don’t like it being called Newari bhasa and others so labeled “Khas” are also saying Hey” there is no “khas”  language its Nepali language. Both  party wanted to call language they speak as Nepali language; I don’t see any problem in that

 

BUT  Mr. daboo you have to come up with funny idea about no existence of Nepali culture. In fact you are writing against the spirit of CT and against your own understanding. Sorry to say that you sound more like you don’t know what you are saying.

  

As far as the name change of the Khas-kura to Nepali is concerned, it was intentional, deliberate and well thought out in order to rule and dominate the local populace cultural, linguistically and politically. This did not happen by itself. Nothing happen by itself. It was the orthdox Bahun’s brain and Chetrris brawn. Rest is history. Only during the Rana regime that the language know as the “gorkha-Bhasa” was renamed to “Nepali” which was a very recent event. Before there was no such language as the “NEPALI” bhasa.

 

Please read, some one already answered this point., but you bring it again. This remind me one joke

 

One guy was trying to put dog’s tail inside an iron pipe, other guy saw it and said “hey whatever you do you can’t straighten dogs tail” first guy replied “no, I am trying to bend the Iron pipe not trying to straighten the dog’s tail

 

The wrong has to be righted first before we begin on the road of reconciliation and reconstruction of our society people and nation. Humans are the only being with a fantastic capability called the rationale brain and the entire information of its history and culture of this world and life is kept it in.
 

And who decides wrong and right?  you?? Or the ppl on your side only,  you don’t need to listen to the other side?

I have posted few data about the language in US analyze it with neutral thoughts may be it will help.

  

I think you are right to say that PNS was not a khas. Yes he was not a khas. His ancestral name was Khan a muslim, perhaps. Their name changed to Shah as seen in their bhansavali and we know them as a Hindu “Vishnu ko Avatar” this was all done on the advise of the learned orthodox Brahmin who thrived on the Chetrris.

 So much hatered towards PNS, man too much negative thinking, please read following. Word "khan"  was there long before spread of muslim religion in Turkey

 

Khan (sometimes spelled Han, Xan, Ke-Han, Turkic: khān  Mongolian: Хаан qāān, Chinese: 可汗 or 大汗, kehan or dahan) is an originally Central Asian title for a sovereign or military ruler, first used by medieval Altaic-speaking nomadic tribes living to the north of China. 'Khan' is also seen as a title in the Xianbei confederation for their chief between 283–289. The probably proto-Mongolian Rourans were the first people who used the titles Khagan and Khan for their emperors, replacing the Chanyu of the Xiongnu, whom Grousset and others assume to be Turkic. It was subsequently adopted by the Ashina before the Göktürks (hence the Turkic peoples) and the Mongols brought it to the rest of Asia. In the middle of the sixth century it was known as "Kagan - King of the Turks" to the Persians.

http://wiki.name.com/en/Khan

 

The title khan influenced Iran and the Muslim countries in Central Asia, but in Arab World (the origin of Islam), khan is the word for “inn” (its first use was applied to “inn for the caravans”).

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_%28title%29

 When majority of people start to use something you cant change it by  a law, people will not follow, read following

 The Indian national calendar (sometimes called Saka calendar) is the official civil calendar in use in India. It is used, alongside the Gregorian calendar, by The Gazette of India, news broadcasts by All India Radio, and calendars and communications issued by the Government of India.[1]

How much do you think Indians use shaka sambat? . Have you seen Indians fighting  for this? most of Indians even don’t know this fact.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_national_calendar

Now situation of different languages spoken in US

 

 There is no national language in US, people with German origin dominate but language is American. fo;;owing  is the diagram which shows the majority ethnic group in different states



   German

   American

   Mexican

   Irish

   African

   Italian

   English

   Filipino

   Puerto Rican

 Look at which ethnicity is represented mostly in US presidency, check population demography and ethnicity of presidents. Is this samabesi?

It will take lots of effort to place how different ethnicity is represented in state assemblies . I Leave that to you


Here are some relevant bits of information from various sites:

17 million ppl can’t speak English very well so what about they standing up for presidency? So many different languages are spoken in US and only 1.5 billion is psent on language education???? and in that too, some programes are desigend to replace foreign language. So many languages spoken in US vanished but US is still a super power why ??? Have you seen them fighting for thier mother toungue? Thats why US is US and nepal is nepal, and I can gurantee you that with present understaning of  nepali ppl, nepal will remain poor for coming 500 yrs if it exists as nepal till then
 

http://ask.yahoo.com/20011107.html

 

Ethnic origins of U.S. Presidents

43 men have served as President, with the following ethnic origins

27 English
 2 English/Scottish
 2 English/Welsh
 4 Scottish
 1 Scottish/Irish
 2 Irish
 3 Dutch
 1 German
 1 African

Fully, 38 of the 43 Presidents ethnic backgrounds are from the British Isles
 
English

Adams (John)
Adams (John Q)
Bush (George)
Bush (George W)
Carter
Cleveland
Clinton
Coolidge
Fillmore
Ford
Garfield
Harding
Harrison (Benjamin)
Harrison (William Henry)
Hoover
Jackson
Jefferson
Johnson (Andrew)
Johnson (Lyndon)
Lincoln
Madison
Nixon
Taft
Taylor
Truman
Tyler
Washington

English/Scottish

Hayes
Wilson
English/Welsh

Arthur
Pierce
Scottish

Buchanan
Grant
McKinley
Polk

Scottish/Irish
Monroe

Irish

Kennedy (Irish Catholic)
Reagan (Irish Protestant)

Dutch

Roosevelt (Theodore)
Roosevelt (Franklin)
Van Buren

German

Eisenhower

African (Kenyan)

Obama

 

 

It is true that Newah culture is one of the wealthiest cultures of Nepal most of Nepalis daily life is seen to be influenced by Newah culture> BUT…BUT when you praise something too much it start to become dispraise like ppl say in Nepali “ chini pani dherai khayo bhaney tito huncha”

 The culture started to develop in Licchabi era and reached the climax in Newah era. It had knowledge from all the developed cultures (for example gold plating in idols in patan using mercury was already developed in Egypt during Pharaohs time it took may be more than 3000 years to reach ktm. It is  not an invented culture it was  developed from already existing base culture. Please read what other Nepalese are saying about newah

 

 

चाहे प्रसंग प्रधानमन्त्री माधव नेपालको होस् वा अरूको। नेवारमा श्रेष्ठ थरको नेवार बाहेक एक त सबभन्दा माथिको प्रसँगबाट वंशावलीमा आजसम्म आएका छन् भने तपाईं इतिहास पल्टाउनुस् पाउनु हुनेछ 'भगिरथ भैया' जस्ता थुप्रै भारतबाट मल्ल राजाहरूबाट झिकाइएका मधेशी कायस्थहरू। जो यहाँका राजाका बहीखाता मिलाएर जाँदा राजाहरूले रोकेर आफ्नै चेलीबेटीहरूसँग विहेसमेत गराईदिए, यो भनेर कि सधैं हाम्रो हिसाब हेरिदिनुहोस्। यस्ता सयकडौं मधेशीलाई राखिएका थिए। आज नेवारमा पनि 'कायस्थ' थरवालाहरू छन्, जो सबै उनीहरूकै क्रसका सन्तान हुन्! फेरि थारूको के इतिहास लेखूँ म? उनीहरू पनि क्रस हुन्। अब, अर्काहरू श्रीकृष्ण आचार्यका र ज्ञानेश्वर भट्टराईका पृथक किताबहरू अनुसार थापा/बस्नेत क्षत्रीहरू राजपूतना भारततिरको, पूर्विया, कुमाई, तथा सरबरिया बाहुनहरू कन्नौजतिरका छन् भने यहिंकै दमाई, कामी, सार्की, पार्की, ओडहरू पनि छन्। राजवंशीहरू कुचविहारबाट, कोचहरू पछि लिम्बूसँग विवाह गरेर विजयपुर गाउँ मोरंगतिर बसाए। लाप्चे वा लेप्चा भारतको सिकिम्म, कालिङ्पोङ्ग, दार्जलिङ्ग, शेर्पाहरू भारत र भूटानबाट, धिमालहरू भारतीय र तिब्बतीको मिश्रण, मगरहरू हंगेरीका आदिवासी मग्यार र भारतका हूणसँग नजिक छन्। गुरूङ्ग (तमू) आसाम र दार्जलिङ्, धुलेलहरू लाँगाका र उनकी पत्नी धुली गाउँका केटीका सन्तान हुन्, जो लाँगा भारतका सिद्धपुरूष थिए र मानसरोवर जानेक्रममा धुली गाउँमा आएर गृहस्थी जीवन बिताउन थालेका थिए। अब म कतिको बारेमा 'पहाडे नेपाली'को बारेमा लेखूँ तथा को–को हालका यस्ता नक्कली नेपाली नेताका बारेमा? जो जनमोर्चा, राप्रपा नेपाल वा अन्य 'गैरमधेशी दल' चलाएर बसेका छन्। अब झलनाथ खनाललाई के भनूँ जब उनी मधेश खोज्न दिल्ली यहाँका जनतालाई पठाउँछन्? उनी स्वयँ पनि मधेशी हुन् कि 'नेपाली'? प्रश्नीय छ।

 please use following link to read full article

http://www.weeklynepal.com/newsite2/index.php?option=com_publication&task=display&view=news&id=10169

 

I may or may not agree what is said above

 

Regarding the Nepali Bhasa  you need to listen to other facts also, sometime I feel even Malla kings didn’t respect Nepal Bhasa. You want to say so many things to so labeled "Khas" ppl but please read following

 ........ मैथिलिक श्रेष्ठ प्रतिमा एहि मल्ल नरपतिक दरबारमे आविकाव्य साधना कएल करथिन एवं ताहि क्रममे मैथिली भाषा मल्ल राज्यमे राजकीय भाषाक रुपमे सम्मानीय पद प्राप्त कए लेलक। तेा। तहिया जे मैथिली काव्य साहित्यिक प्रधान श्रोत अशोक मल्ला आ जयस्थिति मल्लक दरबारमे प्रवाहित भेल, सा हुनक उत्तराधिकारी लोकनिक राज्य दरबारमे १७६८ ई. धरि प्रवाहित होइत रहल। १७६८ ई. मे मल्ल राजा लोकनिक पराजित कए पृथ्वीनारायण वर्तमान गोरखा राज्यक आधारशिला राखल ओ क्रमिक गोरखाली भाषाक महत्व बढैत गेलक ”

मल्ल राजाहरु कतिका साहित्यानुरागी, कलाप्रेमी, काव्यनुरागी तथा नाटकप्रिय थिए त्यस बारेमा डा. दुर्गानाथ झा “श्रीश”ले अगाडि भनेका छन् कि जयस्थिति मल्लका सन्तान जययक्ष मल्लको १४९२ ई. मा मृत्युपश्चात् मल्ल राज्य तीन शाखाहरु भादगाउा (भक्तपुर), (वनिकपुर) बनेपा र कान्तिपुर (काठमाडौं) एवम् पाटन (ललितपुर)मा विभाजित हुन गए पनि उनीहरु बीच पारस्परिक सम्पर्क र स्वस्थ्य यस्तो प्रवल रहेको थियो कि एक दरवारमा राम्रो कविता तथा नाटक रचेर

 
Last edited: 10-Feb-11 09:53 AM
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