harey meek_misfit bro, i think i am misunderstood here. as per your analogy, i said A is X-- that's my observation. you said A is Y and NOT X and that's according to your observation. i have neither agreed nor disagreed with your statement/observation and i have never complained it to be "personal" or offensive. the thread asked to simply name the "persons" who "you" think are good orators and that's what i did. i might have deviated from the topic a bit as i don't count Dr. Rijal as one of the best orators in nepal, however, i do regard him as one of the most learned and intelligent persons and academicians in nepalese academia. if you have different opinions about him, then that's fine! i just don't want to argue on individuals in this forum or elsewhere. if it was pertaining to an organization, group or a school of thought or of actions of a person that have direct impact on the society, by and large, i would have but i don't believe in simply dragging an individual's name in a public forum for discussion. that's all! LooTe