sorry this thread is now getting into my nerves. it keeps popping and popping. i have already stated that if it makes you happy to believe in something that is fine but don't try to pseudologic your beliefs here. you know you don't stand a chance on debating about jesus or god or whatever on logical grounds. so stop being defensive about your god. it is only going to irritate people. you said Jesus died for sin of the mankind, now i can't say i am perfect but since when Jesus died i wasn't in existence and neither were you so somebody who doesn't exist cannot have sin. can they? so jesus did not die for my sins. He died (if he did that is) only for his anti-establishment hippy-like stance against the authoritative entities. there are so many jesus dying all around the world because they are either pro-establishment freaks or anti-establishment morons. please refrain for arguments you can get no where. beliefs are beliefs they cannot be argued. ~Birbhadra