Nepe, thank you for your reply. I seem to understand your thoughts, and i also float on the same boat as you do, i also have my own form of god that i pray, and nomatter what the circumtances are i will always attend all the dharmik functions that require my presense, as a son, brother, any realtionships, because i do not want to be unrespect-ful to any faith that has existed for such a long long time.., anyways at last by reading ur post u dont seem like an atheist to me.. Who created the creator ? If a creator is not required to create the creator, then why can the same assumption not be applied to the universe ? Nepe, you are looking at a creator as a biological being. Creator sud be perfect, and we with our "limited knowledge" sudnt be capable of describing it. Universe existed forever and it is everything, and this universe is the "god", because it stands there causeless, all powerful. But at last all what i said cannot be proved, because i am just saying there "sud" be a creator, but conceving is one thing and convincing me is other. Just like you conceving us to beilive you will win a nobel prize one day, is just imagination, but the fact is u are not getting any nobel prize, , the real truth can only be known thru experience. so sicence can never prove or disapprove the existence of god... As a matter of there are people (scientists) who have been trying to find the way to fix God designed imperfections (for example genetic diseases), nepe, do u know how children are born? Children are born from there parents, and hence parents from their parents, and we do not know how the first human evolved but, we do know for certain that he was evolved here in this earth. and if there is a designer, there is no point for desginer to desgin huamns, in this vast universe. We create things to serve this un-cause universe.