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 Fake Hinduism

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Posted on 11-23-04 7:34 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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I bet, if you have landed in here then, I have succeeded luring your attention just by this thread?s title per se. Well! Amusing is it?s it? Sankaracharya, one of most accredited Hindu guru is counting his days in the confinement and it hasn?t merely stirred anyone back in so called world?s only Hindu kingdom Nepal. I believe it?s an anti Indian sentiment at play, why bother a dhoti being arrested by bunch of dhotis? But I often muse over how Nepal would have reacted given the scenario Mr. Sankarcharya fleeing in Nepal dodging arrest but India demanding Nepal to cooperate for his arrest. The circumstances screech a big NO! We would have seen yet another brag of Hinduism. Yeah, I know I have put forward case of ?what if?, which could be argued on the ground ?no it has not?. Still, I am skeptical and against to those ardent Hindu followers who think, Hinduism is the greatest religion and philosophy of all. I was born Hindu, but I don?t feel comfortable claiming myself a Hindu. I have surpassed the word HATE in here. I don?t have any explanation to ask with other religions, even if they opine their religion is the greatest. I am still egalitarian but bonded by Hindu culture. For me, I don?t get accustomed to the Hindu cultures and traditions for me but for my peers, and I know what exactly to do if they are not around. I would have been loyal to religion only if I had cocksure answer why people are treated as a pariah for smoking marijuana or prostituting or deceiving? Epic states Lord Shiva enjoyed getting high, King of Heaven God Indra always had apsaras, dance bar girls in the contemporary world, amusing him, Lord Ram bamboozled the ethics of war by arrowing down Bali from behind the stone. One should look at on his own boots before regarding other down. Let?s not get confused with religion, nationalism, frustration and confusion.
 
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Posted on 11-30-04 8:10 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Ramayana is merely a story of a war between two cultures, Aryans (Ram) and Dravidians (Rawan). Aryans had the technology that allowed them to win. That technology is WHEEL. With wheels, they were able to mobilise faster than Dravidians. History is written by winners, so the winner got to be god and loser got to be demon. Hoina ra? On the other note, both Hinduism and Buddhism talk about "Sunyata" being the ultimate state. Any thoughts on this?
 
Posted on 11-30-04 12:25 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Yeha ta Rigbed, Yajurbed aadi ko kura po bhai 'ra rahichha. The only ved I know is Haluwabed. Kancho huda tarro, pake pachi khallo. Om shantihi shantihi
 
Posted on 11-30-04 1:16 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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vedic life ji Sanskrit has evolved a lot. So "Bhag" also means vagina. Regarding the spelling for arrow in sanskrit, for simplicity I used "ban" (because I beleive language must be simple and easy to use) other ppl can use "wan" or "Waan". the word suggest the arrow. Vishontar ji Rig Ved and Tripitika were written in different era so the approach is different because by the time of Budhha lots of ppl tried and failed to get Mokchya as suggested/envisaged by Rig Ved so Budhha gave different try. I beleive, "mokchya" is an Illusion and it does not exists, it is an imaginary "thing" dreamed/discovered by ppl who were tired of war/greed. It was also an attratcive mirage for the the ppl who failed many times. So the Priests used it as a tool to lure ppl towards religion. Budhhism teaches very passive life which is not possible in present era. All Religions books are full of interest. They have noble poetry in themt; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies. enjoy the life
 
Posted on 11-30-04 5:55 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Solver... to your query Videha, which is indeed in the eastern part of Nepal, as you have mentioned. Videha Kingdom is the modern day Janakpur. If you remember Sita, the daughter of King Janak of Janakpur, is also known as Vaidehi - meaning daughter(princess) of Videha. It is also clearly mentioned in the Ramayana.
 
Posted on 12-01-04 3:14 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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also not to forget is that during the rein of mahabharat......kathmandu and some parts of nepal was run by kirat.......and most popular king of kirat yalambar was there................there is a also a myth that actually yalambar took part in battle itself......and his 2 sons died as well......( eklabe) guy who cut his thumb for dronacharya also comes from nepal side too................ riten bro if aryan has wheel ......then how come dravidans didnot copy it........if they wanted to make it......they could........if ravan is mentioned with his viman( plane)..........not to be forget that dravidans are good in making things......like palace, cities............like still mentioned beauty of lanka......mentioned beauty of city indraprasta and palace of pandavas..... actualy they were given name danav.........like sankaracharya who is also dravidans......like
 
Posted on 12-04-04 10:18 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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I sometime think my decision to post on this subject was wrong. Subject is quite vast; needs clarification on every single statement, my busy life doesn't allow me to write long explanations, which is generating a lot of confusion on readers. Even if I could manage to write long explanation; readers will be bored and won?' be able to grasp the gist, that won't serve my purpose. There is a saying in the west - "knowledge without application is dead". If I write something and that yields no result, why am I wasting my time? That won't satisfy me. Posting on Sajha is my social life; I want some elements of the society be benefited from me. So, I thought it is better to clarify what I have already posted instead of continuing posting, hope that will clear your confusion. VL Ji and Soleli Ji, thank you very much for your correction. Thanks for the links too. I checked them but couldn't complete due to time constrain. In fact I was aware of the theory. Anyway I want to say something on this matter.First I want to make clear why I am writing. We grow up in such an imaginary society where there is no room for the investigation interrogation, and scientific analysis. We just believe what we have heard we never try to explore the truth. A blind faith is prevailing all around. Through my study, understanding, and experience I am trying to make people to think about their belief, think about themselves. There are three types of truths. One Sabda Satya = truth of words = you read books or hear from someone and accept it. Two, Chintan Sattya = truth that comes form logical thinking or intellectual understanding. Three, Anubhava Sattya = the truth that comes form self experience. Things starts from Sabda Sattya, then move to Chintan Sattya to Anubhava Sattya. Sabbda Sattya is inferior to Chintan Sattya and Anubhav Sattya is most superior and powerful. We believe that we are spiritual, and talk about Param Sattya, the ultimate truth. But the problem is we don't even know Sabbda Sattya, which is basic. We don't read Veda; we don?' know what Vedas contain. We just believe that they contain everything. Does that make any sense? I don't appreciate that. We live in real world, tangible world, we have to be realistic. We have to read them and judge them; we don't have to accept them blindly. This is my point. There is nothing metaphoric, Vedas are straight forward. They contain good as well as bad stuffs. Let me shed some light on this part. People believe that Vedas are eternal, they were written in Sati Yug, a hypothetical era, which is considered to exist billions of years ago. If you read Vedas and analyze scientifically the way of Vedic life and geography, they can't be older than 10,000 years, the worst case. Isn't that contradicting our belief? We believe that the Vedic people were idle people with live perfect, stainless, moral life. But Vedas reveal that they were violence promoting people. Isn?' that against our general belief? Most of the people believe that Vedas were words from the god the almighty, but Vedas say nothing about that explicitly. Vedas doesn?' accept the supremacy of some invisible super natural powers unlike Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Isn't this against of what we belief? Don't we believe that Vedas were written by one of the mythological figure Ganesh and they were uttered by an immortal sage Vyansa? Did Vedas say something about it? Are we children to believe on immortality? We believe that Veda is the source of Yoga, and we utter from our most revered ure Geeta ? "Samatwang Yoga Uchhete = equality, equanimity is yoga", but Vedas are full of impatience and discrimination. We believe that Vedic life is perfect life but believe me if you read Veda you will agree with me it was not an advance society. People think that they are spiritual because they believe on Vedas. Spirituality is the search of Paramartha Sattya, the ultimate truth. Can such blind belief lead you to Paramartha Sattya? Truth can not be found through imagination and gullibility. Truth can only be found through reality. Not only believers, non believers are also in the same boat. Without study, without experience they just reject everything. I don't think that is logical too. I want to encourage people to come to reality. I want them to start from Sabda Sattya, the truth of words. They have to read Vedas and check whether their belief is correct or not. Then they have to move to Manan Sattya, the truth that comes from logical reasoning or intellectual analysis. We are Manu Puttras = Son of the mind, we can judge the words of Vedas. We will accept rational useful words only. Then we will go to Bhawana Sattya, the experiential truth. We will test the validity of the words that we have heard, and validity of thoughts that sounded rational. This experiential truth will lead to the ultimate truth. The whole path should be the path of the truth, the path of reality, the path of actuality. This is real spirituality. This is what I want to say.
 
Posted on 12-04-04 10:45 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Veda = Vedayititi Vedang = whatever is experienced is called Veda = experiential knowledge. Vedas were known as Mantra before, they were named Veda later. In Shanskrit Vedana = experience = tangible feeling. There were three types of Vedana, Sukha Vedana = pleasant feeling, Dukkha Vedana = unpleasant feeling, and Adukhamasukham Vedana = neutral feeling. But now days the word Vedana refers unpleasant experience only. Vedas contains experience of different types of peoples and Yogis. You can filter biggest part of Vedas through simple intellectual analysis. For example you can not accept the brutality to Dasas. You can not accept caste system (don't define them yourselves, it was not labor division at all). You can not accept cow, horse like animal killing ceremony. You can not accept greedy mantras that asked from demigods for wealth, food, rain etc. You can not accept alcohol drinking ceremonies. Then you may encounter something advance which your intellect neither accept not reject, in such case you need to have some understanding of meditation so that you can analyze it. This is how one becomes spiritual. From my experience I can say, spirituality is an exact science without approximation. It is the greatest truth of mind and matter, it is not something brainwashing magic. People have very bad habit of talking about things without any knowledge. They define and decide things according to their thoughts. As we know different people have different thought and a same people also don't have similar thoughts all the time. Thoughts are thoughts, imagination is imagination, speculation is speculation but truth is truth which must be experienced and needs a lot of effort. If you don't know Tipithaka you will have hard time to analyze Vedas. Tipithakas contains quite a good amount of Vedic text. Time of Buddha was the end of Vedic era, so we can see how people were using Vedas, how were they practicing Vedas. One of my friends who is graduate student of Comparative Religious Studies at UC Berkeley said, Buddhism and Vedic Hindusm are very close but Pauranic Hindusm is completely unrelated to Vedic Hindusm ( I am not going to talk about Pauranic Hindusm here, it's a long story, I don't want to start another chapter of confusion. I know from the postings most of you don't know the difference between Vedic and Pauranic Hindusm. You should be wondering that I am talking about Hinduism but don't talk about Shiva, Vishnu, Ram, Krishna, Brahma, god etc, don't be :)). You can find a lot many Vedic texts in Tipitha. You might have been hearing that Buddha opposed the Vedic teaching, which was just a white blame. He learned all Vedic Samadhis from Alar Kalam and Uddak Ramputtra. Pancha Sila, five moral precepts were already there in the society. Many Trivedi (who knows three Vedas, at that time there was no forth Veda, which was developed after Buddha) Brahmans (Shela, Babari, Janasoni etc) became Buddha's monk, why? Why most of the prominent monks like Sari Puttra, Mogallan, Mahakassap, Mahakotthik, Mahakattayan etc are from Brahman family? Do some study! Buddha was great scientist, he accepted only what was good in Veda, he rejected what was useless. What to talk about super human Buddha, there are lot many things in Veda that simple people like us also can reject. Its another long story, I don't want to go there to generate more confusion. Arya Sakti Ji and Soleli Ji, I don't mind whether Aryan came 5000 years ago or 10,000 years ago. I don't mind whether Max Miller's theory is valid or Kenneth Chandler's. It doesn't matter to me. My purpose is served if you believe in the scientific investigated facts but not on the hypothetical rumors. I believe that we are in the same boat, aren't we :)? Hope you don't believe Vedas are gift of supernormal power and heard in millions of years go in hypothetical era known as Sati :). Hope you believe that Vedas are collection of experiences of an ethnic group which can not be older than ten thousand years :).
 
Posted on 12-04-04 10:47 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Vishu avtar ji Satya yuga was not billon years ago coz our brahmans follows 1 day of brahma =100 yrs 10 yrs of brhama= 10,000 yrs so it has been expanded because they follow brahma calender actually it was 10,000 yrs ago
 
Posted on 12-04-04 11:15 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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(Sorry I mean Vedic Life Ji not Arya Sakti Ji, names sounds similar :)) Let me tell you something useless; don't accept this if you don't like, this is not important thing at all. If I have to accept, I will love to accept Kenneth's theory, because it looks more realistic to me. I believe that Aryan people must have come from other land (I apologize if Kenneth has mentioned this in his thesis; I couldn't get time to complete it). Here are my points. Veda clearly says that Aryan people had fair skin and they were living with dark skinned people. Veda clearly says that these dark skinned people were Dasas, the slave. This means that Aryan must have invaded (not necessarily around 2000 BC) them because until modern time there was a tradition of slaving defeated. Deion of Indus valley in Vedas is the proof of being them written in India. Most importantly they were written in Kali Yug :). Anthropologists don't believe that Harappa and Mahenjo Daro cities were not Aryan city like; it means they must belong to dark skinned Dravidians. The structure of the cities tells that the Dravidian must be advanced civilization. This also shows that Aryan must have come from somewhere else. There is no proof that Aryan and Dravidians had any serious battle, but Vedas clearly reveal the brutality of Aryans over Dravidians. We can not reject this fact. This also supports that Aryans must had come from outside. If dark skinned Dravidians had come from some other place and attacked to Aryans, got defeated and became slave. This is unthinkable, first, defeated attackers hard to survive, second, where did the dark woman come from? Were they among the attacker? This is unacceptable. If you want to say dark skinned Dravidians and fair skinned Aryans both are indigenous Indians, you are challenging the science. How could in a same environment two different colored people maintain their color? Tropical India votes for Dravidians as the indigenous Indians. If you say both are from the same origin, language roots are different and I don't think it is possible scientifically that form a same gene two completely different looking people with different language can born in the same environment. All in all Aryan must have come from outside, might not be around 2000 BC, might be around 20,000 BC. Tomorrow new scientific probes of investigation will be developed and much clear picture of those days will come. There is no wisdom of arguing on such things. I am not a history person, neither I am interested in it. I am interested in fact, the reality, the truth. I want people come out of their blind believes. Blind belief is not spirituality; spirituality is an exact truth, not an approximate truth. You can't get truth through imagination. Spiritual people come to visit Indian subcontinent not because of Vedas, Upanishads, Tipithaka or any other religious ideas. They come because of the tradition, the Yogic tradition. Our forefathers didn't invest their time to built Pyramids, temples, and huge monuments. They discovered the path where one can get peaceful state of mind. They discovered it through their own effort, it was not through the mercy of some almighty god. The discovery didn't take place in a single night; it was utter effort of generations of Yogic practice. It was contribution of those great Yogis. Don't try to limit these Yogis to a particle cast like Brahman and Kshatriyas, these people were from all groups of society from Sindha to Himalayas. Let's respect this Yogic tradition, come out of our baseless belief, do some research, find out the truth ourself. Don't think we are spiritual just because we born in Jambu Dipa, the Dharma Land. Don't think you are spiritual just because you believe on Veda, Tipithaka, some Yogis or Saints. You have to follow the path showed by those Yogis and experience the tranquility of mind that they had experienced. Their experience went with them. Their experience made them peaceful. To calm down our mind, to get peace we have to experience ourselves. To quench our thrust we have to dirnk water. It is simple science. To walk in the path discovered by and walked by our forefathers is real tribute to them. Those who seek tranquility of mind remember the Indian subcontinent because of these Yogis and their discoveries. The pride of being descendent of those great Yogis will give us nothing. Grandson of Michael Faraday has to live in darkness if he can not pay the electric bill, though the electricity is being generated by the principle discovered by Faraday. ( MM Ji do you really believe those Brahmic calender stuff :)?!!!!!! By the way I don't want to talk about it. I want to write to you about Shiva but I don't want to touch Pauranic Hindusm, at least not this time. This much is for this weekend. I will write to -Ji hopefully next weekend. My postings are incomplete in all the threads, but they are not confusing, but I think this thread has brought some confusion, I will still post here so that at least nothing remain confusing)
 
Posted on 12-04-04 11:41 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Good discussion! I keep hearing about when this era began and when this era ended. Can someone please lay out the apprioximate dates as to how these eras are defined and classified . Any reference to sources would also be very helpful. Thanks.
 
Posted on 12-05-04 4:07 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Hinduism is most paradoxically define religion then any other that exist. But if you divide to analyze philoshopy behind it is quite simple to look at. There are three kind of practices in Hindiusm and one doesn't necessarily supports another. Vedic, Puranic and Tantrik. Later after course of time they are mixed up to make huge lump of khichadi and thereafter brought to the practice in the form of modern Hindiusm. Vedic era is actually difficult to be dated. They were oraly passed away for over thousands year before they were actually written down. Still in controversy, but it has been identified to be originated in Persia later brought to India, on the ground persian Avesta and Vedas share more commanality in different aspects. It has been analyzed Avesta and Vedas were originated out of same source and later might had differentiated based on individuals adversaries. It is not well justify whether Vedas were originated with the development of Indo-Persian however they might had jotted down into the form of s. Infact Harappan period is even refered to as Vedic period, which was gradually developed along with the Harappan civilization. There were no so-called aryan when Indo-European civilization arrived from Europe to Persia, later some of them diverted to India calling themselves an Aryan and some to Eastern and Western europe. Infact Aryan is not race by itself and was never mention in Vedas either as a race. So Aryan were not one to originate Vedas. However later after Aryan's Invasion in India, Vedas was brought into intense practices in form of Hinduism by so called Aryan. Yes Visnothar Ji Dravidians were not indeginious. They had been culturely riched before Aryan migrate to India. Historian says Dravidians shouldn't be necessarily darked color. It is believed that they have been driven towards southern part of india near equator and as a cause of hot weather they transformed to darked colored inmates. May be later they were referred as Ashur (my guess). Puranic era was somewhere close to this time, where Aryan and Dravidians partices in there own way, but dominated by Aryans. Trantrik was pratices of among different indegineous group. We see all these animal sacrifice is an example of those sort of pratices. Chandi, Mundi, Kali, Bhairav so and so was adapted by Hindu as God; as influenced by Tantrik Vidya..Purana is ritual content whereas trantra is spiritual. Visnothar ji, I read some writings and what foce me to think is Hindu as name should not necessarily be a religion. Most problably the word originated from Sindha Nadi - and civilization developed around that Sindha might have consider as Hindu. What do you think ? Visnothar Ji, you seems pretty knowledgeable in this context. Can you lime light little bit whether principles and philoGeet is apadation of Vedas and Upanisads?
 
Posted on 12-05-04 4:11 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Oops typo.. philoGeeta = Philosophy of Geeta
 
Posted on 12-05-04 4:37 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Pieces,hindu is a morden term coined for INuds valley ppl by persians/greeks/arbians.. . They were oraly passed away for over thousands year before they were actually written down... --thats what "hindus" beilive in pieces bro and i really think its a misconception. do you actually think thats true? for me, as i mentioned early, these stuffs are hard to digest. Vedas, was written by a human, just like all the other philosophical ideas. haha, you are right Vishontar jee, this is very vast vast topic,(cud also be called a kichadi topic) everyword you write cud be held against you, because this is Religion and for some ppl whatever is stated in Vedas is true, so they wont think "out of the box", so i dont think you will have any victory on this thread..nevertheless, thax again for sharing your knowledge and putting your precious time on this thread. and i aslo very much agree with you on what you said. "Truth can not be found through imagination and gullibility. Truth can only be found through reality. " and i also happen to see from the same perspective..for now, just axiously waiting till next weekend :)
 
Posted on 12-05-04 6:16 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Confuse bro thanx, I forgot to mention about INDUS but it not still clear whether it is from Sidha or Indus - it is same anyway. Who said here Vedas is not written by Human.. I didn't say that. Read my thread, I didn't say it had been Oraly passed by God or ALmighty. Confuse bro lets put this way- Harappan had reveal remarkable civilized form of life. If you turn pages, you will see their advancements in engeering to commerce to agricultural activities, you name it (like you, I consider these as hypothesis). And there were scholars as well. But what is ironic about that Civilization was they had not developed real s of writing, it was more of symbolic form. What I can't deny is, many aspects of modern hinduism was the already part of this Civilization. So why can't it be possible that so-called Hyms of Vedas were first originated within this civilization and passed over to another huh..? And finally human jotted it down to the paper.. La bro dherai discuss nagarum yesma - Vishonothar ji has made things clear to everybody. Confuse malai Pisces bhanana yaar, I am not pieces yaar.
 
Posted on 12-05-04 9:02 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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well, when i started getting involved in this kinda topic.........my fren called me crazy and i thought i was the one but tell u what.........i am so happy to see so many intrest? specially with vishu avtaar ji.........he is my guru.........we learn so much? pisces bro is cool too......confused bro and i are in stage of ( anabhigya) still learning....too many complicated question.....vishuavtaar is in ( bhigaya) vishuji pls can u touch puran and tell me about where shiva came from? i am really confused
 
Posted on 12-25-04 6:28 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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-(Dash) Ji, I don't think that I will buy your defination of Bhagawati and Bhagawan. But I appreciate the way of your analysis, which is the right direction. As you said, Bhagawati = vagina barer = woman. If so, every woman should have been addressed as Bhagawati instead of Nari. Bhagawati and Nari don't sound similar words. All Bhagawatis are women but all women are not Bhagawati. Similar is true for Bhagawan, all Bhagawans are men but all men are not Bhagawan. Here is real definition of Bhagawan. Bhagga Rago, Bhagga Dweso, Bhagga Moho ti Bhagawa. Meaning: One who uprooted all the abortions (dweso), all the cravings (rago) and all the delusions (moho) is called Bhagawan. Raga (craving), Dwesa (abortion), and Moha (delusion, ignorence), these three are considered the origin of all the impurities of mind. If you analyze, you will be convinced. For example, anger, jealousy, hatred, ill will, animosity, etc have same root abortion, Dwesa. Greed, lust, passion, selfishness, stinginess etc comes form craving, the Raga. Ego, stubbornness, superiority complex, inferiority complex etc comes from ignorance, the Moha (people give themselves a lot of importance out of ignorance). These three are roots of impurities. Bhagga (Bhagga is Plai, Sanskrit is Bhagna) means to uproot, to eradicate, to cease, to bring them to the end. If someone uproots these three roots he is known as the uprooted one, the exalted one, the Bhagawan. This is the gift of Yogis and the Buddhas. Hindus considered Geeta as their greatest philosophy, and the entire Geeta asked you to come out of Raga and Dwesa (but doesn't teach you how to come out of them). In one place Gita says, "Raga Dwesa Biwiktastu ?Be free from craving and abortion". In another place it says "Tyaktwa ragancha dwesanchha = abandon craving and abortion". And you will find these three words, Raga, Dwesa and Moha, throughout the Geeta and other ures. A man who has completely eradicated Raga, Dwesa and Moha is called Bhagawan. That's why Bhagawan word is not used for all men. All the Puranas were written after the Buddha. They were just stories written on some special purpose, those stories have nothing to do with reality. You can find many Bhagawans in Puran, like Rama Bhagawan, Krishna Bhagawan, Brahma Bhagawan, Shiva Bhagawan, Bishnu Bhagawan etc. Let me not talk about this, if you want to believe keep believing don?t argue with me. If I talk about this topics I will be considered one of the greatest revolutionary ever, that I am :). I really don't like fiction, I enjoy the truth. That's why I have been saying that I don?t want to touch Pauranic Hinduism right now. It's not right time to talk about it, because I don't have time to write in detail to convince you, I am worried that I will just confuse you, that I don?t want :). For now let me put these Bhagawans aside, because nobody have any proof of their existence. Let's go to the real history. The first and only historic person addressed by Bhagawan is Gautama, the Buddha. He was the first person known in human history who declared that he uprooted craving, abortion and ignorance. So he was known as Bhagawan. Itipiso Bhagawa, Arahang, Sammasambuddho, Vijjyacharana Sampanno, Sugato, Lokavidu, Anuttaro, Purisadammasarathi. [Such is exalted, uprooted one, who has destroyed all his enemies, who is enlightened by himself, whose every step is correct, who knows everything, who is incomparable, and best teacher of man and deities.] {Buddha is such: Bhagawa = exalted one, uprooted one (what uprooted? Raga, Dwesa, and Moha source of defilements) Arahang = One who has killed all his enemies (mental defilements are real enemies). Sammasambuddho = one who got enlightened with his own effort, without learning from anybody. Vijjya Charana Sampanno = one who is expert in knowledge and practice. Sugato = one whose every single action is positive. Lokavidu = one who knows every single truth of the universe. Anuttaro = one who is incomparable Purisadammasarathi = One who is excellent charioteer to tame and human and Devatas.} Bhagawan word is not cheap, it is very expensive words. Please interested ones, read all above Pali words, they are as clear as crystal, they define what Bhagawan is. What should the properties of Bhagawan are. What the qualities a Bhagawan should have. Even though hundreds of disciples of Buddha were completely free from Raga, Dwesa and Moha, they never had been addressed as Bhagawan. Bhagawan word stuck only to Buddha, this might have two reasons. Either Bhagawan means the one who uprooted Raga, Dwesa, and Moha by his self developed technique, or those exalted Bhikkus didn't want to be addressed by the word which is used to address Buddha, their revered teacher. Since Bhagawan word is not used for all enlighten man, there is no place for Bhagawati word to be used for enlighten woman. If you believe on those Pauranic tales, then you will find many Bhagawans and Bhagawatis :).
 
Posted on 12-25-04 7:25 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Second thing you said that there is no enlightenment: I don't know what you mean by enlightenment. For me enlightenment is eradication of mental negativities. I took this definition from Buddha. He said "Bisankhara Gattang Chittang = mind is free from defilements". In another words, one who has uprooted Raga, Dwesa, and Moha. If you can uproot Raga, Dwesa, and Moha, your mind get cleaned, you are the enlightened one. This is what Buddha taught entire 45 years of his life after the enlightenment. This is what his Bhikkhus taught for more than 2500 years, and they have been teaching. I don't want to elaborate here what enlightenment is, what the path is to get enlightened etc. If you are really interested in the path, the path is straight forward, scientific, pragmatic. If you walk in the path correctly, the result comes then and there. Here is the deion of the path: Swakhyto Bhagata Dhammo, Sandristhiko, Akkaliko, Ahipassiko, Aupaneyiko, Pacchatang Veditabbo Vinnuhi. [Path given by Bhagawan (Buddha) is well explained, self observable, gives fruit then and there, inevitable to others to practice, capable to lead to full enlightenment, and directly experiential by wise ones] Really Dash Ji, thus is Dhamma, thus is the path leading to enlightenment. I have experienced myself to some extent. I have been walking in the path since more or less than a decade. I have spent months in solitude, practicing the path given by enlightened one, the Bhagawan. It's a pure science, there is no magic, there is no hypnotism. It's a path that leads to the eradication of mental impurities. Mental impurities are cause of misery; Buddha has given a wonderful technique to eradicate them and live a peaceful life, a happy life. Dash Ji you sound a scientific individual, who believe on truth only. I am also like you. I am telling you this not to impress you and not to boost my ego, I am telling you to give stress to my point that there is enlightenment. Enlightenment is not a hypothetical concept developed by war-tired people, but it a real state of mind which can be achieved by human being. Of course it can not be attained just by having faith on it, just by reading about it, just by talking about it, not by discussing about it. A tremendous amount of effort is required to walk in the path; I don't know how much effort is required to get the goal. It is a process, you keep walking in the path, keep eradicating your mental defilements, keep testing yourself whether your mental negativities are decreasing or not, if they are decreasing you are in the right path and one day complete cessation of defilements will come, that is enlightenment, that is called Nirvana. Full enlightenment may be far away from me, but I am convinced that it exists. I am convinced not by reading the ures but through my own experiences. I am like a driver whose destination is in unknown place, thousands miles away, but has a road map. As the driver starts his journey by the aid of the map and keep finding the roads, streets, avenues and highways that are mentioned in the map. Then he get convinced e that the map will lead him to the destination, though it is unknown to him. Similarly, enlightenment is unknown destination to me but I have the road map and confidence on the map. Needless to believe me, you come and test the path yourself. Strive for enlightenment as you will be taught, if you won't find the path that lead to enlightenment, at that point come to me and put your point. Of course by mastering all the books about Dharma, you will neither find what enlightenment is nor will you find the path that lead to enlightenment. As the Manusmiriti (in one of our thread) sound confusing to you, where in one place women were being condemned (abused) and in another place they were honored. If you have practiced the path, you would notice both the statements were valid, just a frame of references were different. I don?t have time to talk more about it, may be some time later, I have left all of my thread incomplete. What I want to say is, if you just read the book, but don't practice, you will get confused even though you are smart. You can't understand physics until you do experiments but you can pass the exam just by reading the physics books, without doing any experiment. I am thankful to all of my friends who appreciated my postings, here and on the other threads, I am honored. I know the honor is not for me, its for the material that I post. Hope my effort will get materialized and you will understand the real Dharma, the scientific technique of mental purification, and try to find the way. I am getting busier and busier these days, I can't pormise anymore to post though I want to write something to confused Ji about Victory and Defeat & meaning of life,to Pisces Ji about philosophy of Geeta, and to MM Ji about Vishowntar, which is not equivalent to Vishnu Avatar :). MM Ji life is long, one day I will tell you about Shiva, but I want you to have open mind and big heart, prepare yourself for that :). Nice to be among you guys, bye.
 
Posted on 12-25-04 9:00 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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VISHONTAR , Kaha bata copy paste mareko ho babu.
 
Posted on 12-25-04 9:43 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Sorry friends, as usual there are lot many mistakes. But there is one that bound me to post. In the fourth Para of my last posting, please read appealeable instead of inevitable. Dash Ji, I wrote you as per my promise. I forget to tell you one thing though. Buddha's teaching is real challange to wise people. You first practice it, master it and then say whatever you have experienced. I found his teaching is not against the life, rather it teaches how to live happily and harmonously. It's an art of living. No fiction can survive for long time, and can influence the mass. Wise people exist in all the society and all the time. A wise person always stats after investigating the truth from all possible angles. Please check the validity of words, analyze them. Forgive me I couldn't appreciate you in this regard but I am your friend, your loving brother. PQN1 ji Namaste :). Now I am leaving for you to catch my theft :). Good luck :). Dear friends, this time I am taking longer vacation from Sajha, thank you for sharing your knowledge, I am obliged. This will be my last posting. Vishowntar
 
Posted on 12-26-04 5:55 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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vishuavtaar ji...........la ka ggako......jhan tapai ko posting kati pachi parkhida parkihda tension..tes mathi sanyo notice diyera farewell......we need guy like u who can tell us more about vedas........Maile tapai lai guru maaneko chu hernu....vishu dai...atleast email address ta dinu Ka bich bato maa chodeko......hamilai
 



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