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 Do Vedas support animal killing for Dashain?

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Posted on 10-01-13 2:24 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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 Do  Vedas really support animal killing? My understanding from the Upanishads is that Vedic code of living is very strict and goes in coherence with total natural law. Vedas sees one supreme being in all species. During Vedic age, sacrifices were done with symbolic representation of animals but not by actually killing animals. The idea of Yagna was to please gods by sacrifices of your lower nature (tama guna, rajas gun, saatvic gun) by actually sacrificing the symbols of animals which represents our lower nature. In modern Hinduism, people have gone barbaric without understanding the ideas of Vedas. How can Vedas support animal killing when it clearly declares: All this verily is Brahman (Sarvam Khalvidam Bhramha).

Let's enjoy this Dashain with non-violence spreading compassion to all species including lower animals and goats. A goat has an equal right to live like an ordinary human being. Who gave you the right to kiil animals in the name of sacrifice? It is only your desire that is killing goats for your own material needs.
 
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Posted on 10-01-13 9:42 PM     [Snapshot: 283]     Reply [Subscribe]
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idk 2013, Vedas can be used for reasoning, in fact, Vedas should always be used for reasoning. But to understand the vastness of Vedas, mental reasoning is not enough. In simple word, mental consciousness is not enough to understand the complexities of Vedas. The Rishis, Yogis who discovered Vedas were not ordinary human beings who seek sensual pleasures. These Rishis actually mastered their own mind and came to a state of mind where mind was absolutely silent and this silent state of mind reveals higher reality. And Vedas consist of these higher realities which cannot be understood by normal human who always seeks sex, money, power, meat, wife, children, car, etc. Sex is not in the Penis! Sex is in the mind. Mind is everything! Therefore, why should we focus on inert substances like penis? And to be honest, I am not a scholar of rituals of Atharva Veda. I am just trying to illumine that "real killings of animals" are prohibited in the Vedas. I am just trying to say that modern people ignorantly kill animals in the name of sacrifice when they don't even understand abc of their own religion. 90% of so called Hindu don't even know what Brahman is! All they know is Brahmaa (this is different from Brahman), Visnu, shiva and some other handful of deities. In the Nasadiya sukta of Rig Veda, it boldly tells: Even these gods came after the Big Bang, then who knows what lies beyond that? Such is the Vedas. if understood properly and wisely, you will be liberated, otherwise the suffering of samsara is endless.
 
Posted on 10-01-13 9:47 PM     [Snapshot: 291]     Reply [Subscribe]
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@ Iamback aka gorikopoi,

U again trying to be racist here.....i aint bahun but derogatory remarks against any caste is not tolerable.....

@Sandai 

Mukh chodne mauka dinu huncha??? i know u've warned me before. tara sajha ma yesta rakshas haru chan jaslai thik parna rakshas nai bannu parne huncha,.....

 
Posted on 10-01-13 10:01 PM     [Snapshot: 299]     Reply [Subscribe]
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@giordano, how do you fight with darkness? By bringing the light! Darkness is unreal. Ignorance cannot be fought with ignorance but with knowledge. Can there exist darkness on the surface of the sun? It's absurd to even think about it.
 
Posted on 10-01-13 10:24 PM     [Snapshot: 321]     Reply [Subscribe]
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यो पालि दशैंमा मान्छेले खसी खान नपाउला जस्तो भै राछ, ह्याँ चाहिं खसीकै कुरा भै राछ! फोगट्याहरु!  
 
Posted on 10-02-13 11:31 AM     [Snapshot: 404]     Reply [Subscribe]
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@ujl, your proposition of us not understanding the Vedas reminds me of this:

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein. 
But in the Vedas case, we don’t have to. Here is why:
 
{Your words, “The Rishis, Yogis who discovered Vedas were not ordinary human beings who seek sensual pleasures. These Rishis actually mastered their own mind and came to a state of mind where mind was absolutely silent and this silent state of mind reveals higher reality.

We do have senses and our physical body, and this is our reality. But to demonize the senses and glorify only the abstract ideas limits the Vedas as one partial of life, very important one though, but not the holistic package of living one’s life. We cannot completely deny desires, forgo ego, abandon dreams, and only sit and think blue aspect of ‘nothingness of life’. There is a reason why the Hinduism itself would come up with Kamasutra.
Brother, that’s a wrong way to live a life, at least for me. Had people not had those, we wouldn’t be sitting in the computer and typing these high stuffs. We would be living in caves, eat some hunts and think blue and die miserably (even though you make think it is still ‘liberating’).  
“अति सर्वत्र वर्जयेत्”}
 
So Vedas has its own place, just one. To me, living beings are scattered in a triangle shape and the occupants are: philosopher in one vertex, lunatic in the second, and animals in the third. I think a lot of people prefer to be somewhere in the middle doing everything.
Going back to the Khasi, you touched upon non-injury (non-violence your word). I invite you to clarify if you believe in following absolute non-injury. No harming of other lives. 

 
Posted on 10-02-13 3:36 PM     [Snapshot: 456]     Reply [Subscribe]
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idk 2013, I do believe in absolute non-injury. And again, injury is not just physical. You can injure a person mentally, through your thoughts and words. This is a subtle field. About Elbert Einstein, I have deep respect for his contribution in science but Vedas are beyond Einstein's thought. In other words, where quantum physics ends Vedas starts. Also, don't try to mix two worlds: Material & Bhramic world. These two worlds are opposites. From the Bhramic standpoint, how can you injure something that is immortal? In material world, injury do make sense but not in the Bhramic world. To an enlightened sage, this world is a dream. The only reality is Bhraman where there is no pairs of opposite such as love & hate, likes & dislikes etc etc. Be at peace. Enjoy your Dashain with Tika, jamara and aashirvad.


 
Posted on 10-02-13 3:50 PM     [Snapshot: 465]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Ok. So how would one sustain without taking life, or ceasing the continuity thereof, of other life forms?
 
Posted on 10-02-13 4:14 PM     [Snapshot: 475]     Reply [Subscribe]
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 guys we are talking about hindus here, who in the past thought it was ok for women to go "SATI" once their husband die.
 
Posted on 10-02-13 4:17 PM     [Snapshot: 479]     Reply [Subscribe]
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idk 2013, one cannot sustain this body without consuming food unless you know advanced yogic techniques. Humans have choice to eat plant based food or animals. Eating animals is prohibited by Vedas.
 
Posted on 10-02-13 5:43 PM     [Snapshot: 498]     Reply [Subscribe]
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I hear you, Nayapidi.

@ujl, by admitting to consume food, you are admitting that you do harm other lives. You kill other souls.... Or are you saying plants do not have life therefore killing seeds or plant parts is non-injury?

 
Posted on 10-02-13 6:59 PM     [Snapshot: 513]     Reply [Subscribe]
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You technically cannot kill souls. Souls are immortal. There is a difference between plant life and animal life, though both have souls. Plants do not posses sense organs that registers emotions, pains, suffering, happiness, desires etc.. But animals are higher than plants and posses sense organs that registers emotions, pains, suffering, happiness, desires etc.. Your position is also valid because total liberation is not possible until you give up this body! But you want to live this life minimizing sins. There is a fine law of nature that governs existence. A tiger kills deer when he his hungry. This killing by tiger is not consider as violence or sinful act based on cosmic constitution. The tiger body is not equipped with human intelligence. Humans are responsible for their choices because they possess intelligence. Fruits, vegetables can be consumed for the protection of your body. Self-protection is your Dharma but self-protection on the expense of other living entities who feels emotions is a sinful act.
 
Posted on 10-03-13 10:04 AM     [Snapshot: 596]     Reply [Subscribe]
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"You technically cannot kill souls. Souls are immortal." => Kill as much animals as you can because you are not killing any soul. (Who cares abt minor pains as long as u get new body)

IMHO, Dasai without khasi is brothel without prostitutes. And vegeterian Dasai is like visiting brothel and jerking yourself off.
(This is just analogy)
If you know what I mean.



 
Posted on 10-03-13 9:43 PM     [Snapshot: 725]     Reply [Subscribe]
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"Fruits, vegetables can be consumed for the protection of your body. Self-protection is your Dharma but self-protection on the expense of other living entities who feels emotions is a sinful act."

Why cannot give you a straight answer? If you believe in absolute non-injury; how can you harm any souls animals or seeds or anything else that has life element within it. How ludicrous is it to pick and choose? After villainizing meat-eating so much in the name of non-injury, then why cannot you admit that by eating your vegetables or milk, you are doing nothing different. Not at all. It is foolish of one to try to say that 'plant is different'. 

Get this story:

एक जना ब्राम्हण कर्मकाण्ड गर्न भनी धनमानको घरमा गएछन | धनमानको करेशा भरि तरकारी फलफुल लटरम्म फलेका थिए | कर्मकाण्ड गरेपछि धनामानकी श्रीमतीले पैसा चामल पोको पारेर ब्राम्हणलाई अलिकति शुद्ध गरेर खीर पकाउन शुरु गरिन | बाजे घर्भेटी आइमाईको काम याद गर्दै थिए अगिदेखी| जता गए पनि खीर खाँदा खाँदा दिक्क भएका बाजेलाई त्यो बारीको कल्कलाउदो लसुनको पात हालेर पकाएको bhyanta को तरकारी र धनिया हालेको गोलभेडाको अचार  खुब खान मन लागेछ र प्वाक्क भनीहाले| 
 
अब धनमान कि बुढी अक्क न बक्क परेर अनि बाजेले ठट्टा पो गरेको हो कि भनेर confirm  गर्न सोधिन, "बाजे तपाईहरु त लसुन bhyanta खानु हुन्न नि होइन र?" 
 
अब झस्किने पालो बाजे को थियो क्यारे तर एकछिन सोचेर बडो हिसाबका साथ स्थिति लाई आफ्नो कन्ट्रोलमा लिंदै भने, "त्यो किताबमा लेखेको लसुन खान नहुने हो नानी, यो बारी को त हुन्छ |"

 
Posted on 10-03-13 10:35 PM     [Snapshot: 741]     Reply [Subscribe]
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According to your idea, killing of humans for food is also justifiable. Why don't you start eating human flesh? What keeps you away from eating human flesh? Human flesh and goat flesh have same element! Why don't you start eating human flesh?
 
Posted on 10-04-13 12:53 AM     [Snapshot: 772]     Reply [Subscribe]
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 happy goat cutting day


 
Posted on 10-04-13 11:05 AM     [Snapshot: 816]     Reply [Subscribe]
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owwwo, Brother Ujl you sound frustrated. Vedas reasoning not helping you anymore? It's a dead end, brother. It takes you nowhere. 

No matter how much we try to deny it, the ecosystem is the reality of this physical world. Metaphysical world is basically just something to talk about, big stuffs, because no one knows. 

So the eating lives of levels below in the pyramid is our reality. So just like eating rice, eating khasi is totally justified. 

About the Vedas, it's a great literature. A lot of knowledge in it. But again it's not a complete package of way of living. 

- It's not discovered by god or rishis or anyone, just human beings like you and me..but intelligent people, great thinkers.
- It cannot answer everything..So once you run to the inevitable dead-end, then people say 'ohh you need to be in higher conciousness level'. You cannot get it.
- So it is a control mechanism as well. Make people feel less of themselves when the ask question and rule them.


If you are a priest and Vedas is your livelihood, try to come to the reality. This world is fun. Really fun..it's not a dark hole as you portray. 


 
Posted on 10-04-13 11:28 AM     [Snapshot: 822]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Big thinkers always try to find a bigger meaning to life. Veda is nothing but a book. There are always lot of self help books on the shelf but you don't have to take them as religion. You take in some information that makes sense not everything. I do understand where Uji is coming from and I do support your take on it. We as human beings need to be more sensitive to the killing of lives who experience pain. The eating of plant is a non issue since plants do not have the emotion to experience pain.

As as aware human being who preach and practice humanity, it is a point of hypocrisy when human beings resort to killing animals for food by inflicting pain and death on animals who are very similar to us as far as nurturing and family goes.

We cannot compare that to the animal world who do not have any option to eat besides killing and eating other animals.

It would be nice to be a vegeterian so that we don't have to feel guilty about being an indirect cause of the death and pain felt by an animal but we tend to justify that by acknowledging that as long as we don't kill ourselves it's fine. It's a slippery slope but in the grand scheme of things there is no right and wrong except what one has come to learn by his/her own experience.

So yes it sucks that animals have to be subject to pain and murder which is very unfortunate but nature made us humans who are omnivorous so we will eat both if the opportunity arises.

 
Posted on 10-04-13 12:39 PM     [Snapshot: 841]     Reply [Subscribe]
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idk 2013, you didn't answer my question, did you? I want to ask you again. What keeps you away from eating human flesh since goat flesh and human flesh have the same element? Please, kindly explain your reasons. Second, evolution is a fact. Do you think "human beings" are the ultimate goal of evolution? In the scale of evolution, human beings are just refined animals with animal instinct deep rooted. Please read this carefully and try to contemplate for sometime: When you poke a goat with a sharp needle in his/her neck, it reacts with pain and rejects this idea of poking by humans. This means, goats wants to survive and live. They do sex, they raise families, when you go closer to a mother goat, she will immediately tries to save her babies from intruders. All  animals have right to live, reproduce, and enjoy the existence as humans do. Why are you eating meat? In the process of evolution, that was your diet. Within you there is deep rooted animal instinct still present. It is a strong impulse which is extremely hard to give. If you behave like other animals then what is the difference between you and animals. Humans have highly refined instrument of intelligence that can apply reasons to detect what is wrong and what is right. Aimals lack this intelligence. Therefore, aimals have become vulnerable to humans. Knowledge and higher power of intelligence gives you higher responsibility: you can use it to bring peace and harmony to all species, or you can misuse it to satisfy you material needs based on your deep rooted animal instict. Some basic revision: 1)Humans are not the ultimate goal of evolution, 2)intelligence and knowledge gives humans higher responsibility, 3) When there are plenty of vagetarian food available, why is your mind still running after killing animals? Please try to answer my question with logical reasoning. Once again, what is keeping you away from eating human flesh when you know human flesh and goat flesh have same element?
 
Posted on 10-04-13 2:57 PM     [Snapshot: 883]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Absolutely ready to answer your question, Brother! I think I already touched upon that. It’s a pyramid of food chain. Human is in the same level of the food chain that’s why, we don’t eat it. Even further, out of many choices in the levels below; we can easily choose to eat or not to eat a particular food. Meat is nothing different.

If you ask me, it’s better to be vegetarian for HEALTH REASONS (I think it’s obvious enough, so not going in detail in this one). I think you are taking it totally wrong here. Question is not whether or not we should eat meat. Do we follow non-injury if we eat. This is the question. As mentioned above about the levels in the pyramid, people may prefer one over another. Should you make intelligent choice? Absolutely. We are strictly talking about non-/injury aspect of our food. 

Just because, you can see reactions in animals and not in plant life doesn’t mean that it is non-injury. Just because plants don't have or animals have less, it doesn't make it right. Killing is killing. Just like hitting a person in coma doesn't make it right because he cannot show emotions.  It’s just your ability, or lack thereof, to see it. A plant or fruit or seed has a life form contained within. See a lush green baby tomato plant shooting up to enjoy its life and you mercilessly cut it into pieces; you are essentially taking its life. It cannot bloom any flowers, pollinate (basically sex), grow new baby tomatoes, any seeds and so on. A mother cow doesn’t go through a complex bodily process to make milk for you; it is to nurture her baby cow. You ruthlessly push away calves’ hungry mouth, and you steal their mom’s milk to fulfill your hungry selfishness. Brother, that is injury. You don’t have even kill to injure. (Your penis doesn’t have to penetrate a vagina to loose your sexual abstinence in its real meaning. It is all the mental activities that goes on inside you.)  You don’t have to poke a goat, if you in fact contemplate for awhile you’ll find that the same injury will be observed in any life form. Another example I can think of is like finding it perfectly ok not to give any raise to other well qualified employees who didn’t complain, but to give some just because they approach to the boss to complain for the raise.  

So my position is that it’s very hypocritical to define non-injury on what suits us. We cannot live without injury. That’s way how that natural law is set up.

“Animals lack intelligence.” You may want to do some fact check on this. May not be as intelligent as human, but they do have both emotions and intelligence.

“Humans are not ultimate goal of evolution.” If you actually believe in evolution, there is not goal. Your statement contradicts in itself. Evolution is dictated by the surrounding environment itself. Million years ago, nature (perhaps God in your terms) didn’t have ‘goals’ to make giraffes with such long necks. Had the climate then been different and grass been available in the surface or in the lower branches, giraffes would have shorter necks. I don’t want to go in details of ecology on how both the plant and animal ‘bodies’ are adapted to the environment, but I think you got my point.  

I do agree with rethink that we human being has higher intelligence, so are capable of and should be thinking higher ideas. But it is very unethical to distort the fundamental facts to sound mystic or to control other people, like unfortunately a lot of Hindu ‘books’ have been misused today.  
Last edited: 04-Oct-13 03:08 PM

 
Posted on 10-04-13 4:27 PM     [Snapshot: 906]     Reply [Subscribe]
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idk 2013, so your position is basically since there is injury involved in every action in food consumption, so why not go ahead and eat whatever we like?
 



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