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 best bowler ever???

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Posted on 10-20-08 1:36 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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We are done picking up the best batsmen of modern era...what about the bowlers?
who would be your top three bowlers of modern times?
my choice....
Fast bowlers:
1.Wasim Akram
2.Glenn Mcgrath
3.Alan Donald
3.saqlain mustaqh
Last edited: 20-Oct-08 01:39 PM

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Posted on 10-20-08 7:31 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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1.Waqar Younis in his prime was the best bowler (that's what i think)
2.Malcolm Marshall

Posted on 10-20-08 7:54 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Hey friends,
How can u forget about curtley ambrose accuracy?

Posted on 10-20-08 8:02 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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We just love the fireworks
Posted on 10-20-08 10:50 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Forgot to include some very very special names. : Allan Donald (the white lightning), Curtly Ambrose.

Wasim to me was the most skillful bowler. Early on when he was spotted by the great Imran Khan when he was just 18, he was lightning fast and unplayable. But later he had to cut down on his pace and his run up, and guess what, he became more lethal. He was master of swing, reverse swing at a high pace. Reason why I give batsmen of 90s more credit because there were some like Sachin, lara, AB, who played him really well..at the same time there were plenty (specially England players 92 series, NZ batsmen)  who never had an idea what the ball's gonna do, in swing, out swing, reverse swing. He could bowl 6 deliveries of 6 different kinds and the lesser batsmen would never figure out what in the name of god just happened.

2003 World cup, India vs Pak, if anyone noticed, Sehwag..though in good form, was literally shielded from Wasim Akram by Sachin Tendulkar, who played most of Akram's deliveries and left Sehwag to face Shoaib and Waqar. Waqar was very fast, I have this feeling he was probably faster than Brett Lee or even Shoaib Akhtar...I don't give a damn to these speedometers, u got to ask the batsmen who faced him, and he would bowl mostly the fuller  those inswinging yorker deliveries at a very very high pace, which would do either of 3 things, clean up ur stumps, crush ur toes or a plumb lbw. But his peak was just few years after which he was not the same force. Akram was always the most versatile, no batsman could ever afford to relax while playing him even to his later days.

And Yes, the duel between Athers and Allan Donald has to be the most thrilling spectacle in test cricket's history. Hats off to u Athers.


Posted on 10-21-08 1:47 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Washim Wakram

Glenn Mcgrath

Shoab Akhttar


Posted on 10-21-08 6:42 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Why I believe Curtley Ambrose was better bowler than Wasim Akram?

Although it is difficult to compare Ambrose and Akram in ODI's because Ambrose didn't even played half the matches as Akram (amost less than 200 matches), however, their test records runs very parallel.  Ambrose has better record than Akram in almost every aspect.

In 98 test matches Ambrose has taken 405 wickets at a bowling average of 20.99  at miserly economy rate of 2.3 and strike rate of 54.5.

In 104 test , Akram has taken 414 wickets at a bowling average of 23.62 with economy rate of 2.59 and strike rate of 54.6.

As you can see, Ambrose is not only more miser but also takes wicket in lesser number of balls while giving lesser number of runs. Ambrose specialty was he use to take wickets right at the top of the order with a new ball, Wasim on the other hand was a master of an old ball.

Ambrose was nicknamed  THE RAGING BULL because he was as lethal as raging bull. And his  hi five celebrations after taking the wicket will linger in the mind of people forever. He made top teams bite the dust. Dont forget pakistan was bowled out for 43 and 71 in one day matches and england were bowled out for mere 46 in port of spain.

Posted on 10-21-08 8:10 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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No Doubt.


Posted on 10-21-08 9:33 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Ambrose was a miserly bowler, had impeccable line and length, had the advantage of height and got extra bounce but the more I hear from you no queiro the more I get an impression that our views can never ever match, but then who cares right !!!! By the way I respect ur views and strongly disagree with them.

U don't compare the bowlers with the statistics only. A cricketer is judged by statistics as well as skills. Akram played most of his cricket in Asian dead pitches where Dennis Lillee refused to tour. Ambrose and Walsh were never as effective in flat tracks of India, Pak.

One must be day dreaming to say that Wasim was only good with old ball. He was equally good with both good and old ball. The fact that he was deadly with old ball gives him advantage over other great fast bowlers.

To me , Wasim Akram is by far...I repeat by far...the best bowler ever to me. Period.

To say Ambrose was better bowler than Wasim is so unimaginable.

Posted on 10-21-08 10:04 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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When you say wasim bowled in dead pitches, then you should also take record away from Indian and paksitani batsman than because record shows there are more dead pitches here and alot more runs are scored in Indian and Pakistan than anywhere else.

The fact is you adapt to the place where you learn. If Wasim had such a great record in Pakistan (and statistically still falls behind Ambrose) that means he doesnot pick as much wicket outside pakistan as ambrose does.

If we say Australia have been generally the best team in last 15 years and judge by the performace against them, then curtley still have staggering record against them.

27 test matches with mind boggling 128 wickets (almost 5 wickets per test match) at an average of 21. Akram only have 50 wickets in 13 test at an average near 26.

 If you say pitches in Pakistan are dead than Akram's record in Australia or that matter south africa is nothing to write home about. 36 wickets in 9 test matches at an average of 25 in Australia and in south africa it falls as low as 39. Compare that to Ambrose record 78 wickets in 14 test at an average of just 19 which is incredible.  ambrose still magages to pick wickets every 23 runs in south Afirca.  It is generally assumed that Australia and South Africa have been the best team in last decade or so.

Akram better performances have come against Sri Lanka, Westindies and New Zeland who in anybody's book are not the top side.

Another reason why amborse is better bowler because he is more consistent bowler than Akram. He has better record than Akram in every continent that including Asia which is generally considered dead. The table below gives how much run each bowler gives before taking up the wicket  (i.e bowling average)

                          Ambrose                                       Akram
In Asia               22.50                                             22.53
Africa                 23.76                                             30.02
Americas           21.19                                              26.88
Europe              20.77                                              28.73                  
Ociena              19.96                                              20.05
Home                21.19                                              22.22     
Away                20.78                                              24.61                

Shane warne in his top50 cricketer's put Curtley Ambrose in number 3 (although I am not that big fan of his rating ) behind Sachin and Lara, Steve waugh  always said Ambrose as the best bowler in the world. Lara always regarded ambrose as the best and said he was thankful that he didnt have to face him, Micahel Atherton always regarded Ambrose as the most difficult bowler to face.
Last edited: 21-Oct-08 02:52 PM

Posted on 10-21-08 10:39 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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In my generation I have only seen one bowler Shane Warne, who has inspired more people than any other bowler. Call him controversial, but he was a show-man, mysterious, charming, charasmatic. I remember during 1996 world cup just when cable tv was a big hit in kathmandu, everyone was talking about him as if he was newly a found gem. Every bowl he bowled was special, and people expect them to be so. Tell me how many of you who every bowled a cricket ball even though you were a pace bowler did not try to bowl one leg-spin just because you had watched Shane Warne bowl it? He made cricket interesting.

Posted on 10-21-08 5:16 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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here comes no_quiero with his same ole comparison game once again hahaha....he has all the stats from his strenuous research to back up his claim (which a part of me tend to commend...NOT the conclusion or his derivation but his effort as i appreciate people bringing different varieties of arguments on the table) but on the flip side of it, it is interesting to note that this guy tends to enjoy and feel heroic about the vicarious satisfaction he tends to get by putting his "favorites" over another legend of the game in his argument which i can't help but laugh at, time and again hahaha...

Curtly Ambrose is no doubt one of the greats the game has seen-- no one would argue on that. His stat would possibly look better than many of the other greats--no one's denying that too. but as prabhat k pointed out, there are things (other than stats) that you see in each sportsman and that make them special.

if we were to argue that stat is the sole metric in measuring who's better than his counterpart, then we can bring all the stats from the grave and do a correlation analysis (w.r.t. time, w.r.t. individuals and all) and prove that Ravi Shashtri was a tad bit better player than Sachin Tendulkar because in his  heyday,  he played better than the "average Tendulkar" that we know as of now and over the last 19 years. Ravi had also won one or two more important games  for India than Sachin has so far. Ravi had more success as a bowler than Sachin has, as of now, as a bowler. To top the fact,  Ravi was a part of the 1983 Indian cricket team, which won the SOLE (as of now) world cup for India. Was Sachin a part of such delight for India? - NO, not so far..

Go on, bring forth the same comparison shit and prove that Diego Maradona was inferior to Salvadore Schilachi, or the latter was a better soccer player than the former. Did Maradona win the golden boot ever? NO. Shillachi did.

You would not want to admit that the quality and value (the opponent against which those goals were made, the importance of those matches and all) of those goals are important and not always their number.

I have a deep respect for the legends of the game (in cricket, that is) whether it be Wasim, or Ambrose, Sachin or Lara. I don't feel the comparison is needed in the first place and we need to choose one and put him over the rest (although at some instances, comparisons are inevitable but it's better to keep it with you rather than blowing your trumpet with it).

For me, just for the simple fact that Wasim Akram was somebody who was a bowler of a kind (for his action and strength)..he can NOT be compared to anyone (not even god --if he is really UP there, and if is to show the rest of the world how he bowls). For me Wasim is someone who pioneered the Art of Reverse swinging (which later became a lethal weapon for other bowlers) and the deadliest of all bowlers at any point in the game (throughtout the most of his career).

I typed my stuff really fast so I am not sure if I put my point across well. I know for a fact that you, no_quiero, are a great fan of Lara. Now here's what your lord has to say about the greatness of a bowler we all know by the name of Wasim Akram:

“ Over my 15 or 16 years of playing international cricket in Tests and one-day internationals, Wasim Akram is definitely the most outstanding bowler I've ever faced"  - B.C. Lara. (source: Wikipedia)

(now don't tell me Lara didn't have to Face Ambrose so the statement doesn't qualify for my argument. You don't say that to the bowler of another team when you have someone "better" (in your term) than that player in your own team)

So long....

Posted on 10-21-08 7:42 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Loote bro,

To add something on reverse swing. Do you remember how in 1992 England tour Wasim/Waqar literally made the english batsmen look like a club side with their reverse swing, and then there was a huge cry that it was ball tempering. They only gave due respect to the art of reverse swing when their own bowlers- Simon Jones, Andrew Flintoff, Harmison and co. used reverse swing to win Ashes in 2005. It's an art and it goes a long way in to 70s.

Sarfaraz Nawaz was the original master of reverse swing. Imran was not as successful in his early days but Sarfaraz taught him the skill of reverse swing. Thereafter Imran went on to become one of the best wicket taking bowlers of his time. He later passed this on to Wasim and Waqar.

Wasim had such a quick arm action that he never had to rely on mere run up or pace for that matter. I can bet that he was the only bowler that Sachin has been most cautious of in his hey days. And there duel was always fascinating. While bowlers like McGrath got wickets with persistent line and length in that off stump corridor, Walsh and Ambrose with their pace, height and bounce off the pitch, Akram foxed the batsmen. Apart from Lara and Sachin, very few batsmen played him that well.

Who in the world cares the difference in the economy rate betweem 20 and 23. Akram was a wicket taking bowler at any stage of the game, any ball (Sg or KB), first day pitch, last day pitch, any country any condition.

Sachin rates him the best he ever faced.  Desilva said the same and so did Arjuna Ranatunga. But I saw this interview of Imran khan, one of the greatest of bowlers, he was asked who he thought was better- him or Wasi\m,He said no doubt..it's Wasim.

When Imran Khan says, he says. When Imran says Viv was more destructive than any other batsmen he has seen, that ends the argument for me.

Having seen Wasim bowl, Sachin, Lara, Mark Waugh, Azharuddin bat, Warnie played, I truly believe I witnessed the best era of cricket(90s) where all those players were once in a generation players. true Legends.

Posted on 10-21-08 8:24 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Why don't we talk about someone from Nepal like Mehboob Alam who took all the possible 10 wickets in a match.................

Posted on 10-21-08 8:42 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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In this case I can relate to when African Americans become so emotional and say I never expected to see a black president in my life time about Obama.

I would feel really proud, if in my life time I could talk of our cricketers in the same breath as of Lara, Sachin, Imran, Warne and others.

Wish it happens.

Posted on 10-22-08 12:13 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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what's the point in getting the reverse swing and still end of being less effective than Ambrose. Infact true master of reverse swing is Waqar Younis because he had the pace during his early days.  You say Wasim/waqar made england look like club side. Hmm..... well his performance in that series was good but not outstanding taking 21 wickets in four tests. Infact wasim's best performance have come in seaming conditions in New Zealand.  Ambrose has a better record in England than wasim. Also England were not very fancied side in the nineties.  I have seen Curtly Ambrose took 7 wickets for just  1 run in a n spell against Australia. Talking about england Ambrose bowled out England for 46 runs. When did Wasim created such a havoc? I have known south africa celebrating the victory when they needed 78 runs to win the test match with 8 wickets remaining and then losing rest 8 wickets for just 26 runs. All credit to Ambrose. Wasim Record in the bouncy conditions in South Africa is very unimpressive. Mind you South Africa have been second best side in the world all these years.

Statistics are like Girl's Skirt they show more than they hide. The fact that Ambrose has done better than Wasim in every continent there lefts no case for comparison. I am not only talking about economy but also averages and strike rate. He takes wicket in lesser ball, giving lesser runs. By no mean i am saying wasim isn't a great because I have put him in number 3 below ambrose and McGrath because his record against the top teams in the nintees isnt as impressive as Ambrose. Not to forget Wasim's batting ability as well. But purely as a bowler I will rank him  just below Ambrose and Mcgrath. 

Anybody is free to disagree.

Last edited: 22-Oct-08 04:37 AM

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Last edited: 22-Oct-08 08:56 AM

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Last edited: 22-Oct-08 08:57 AM

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Last edited: 22-Oct-08 08:58 AM

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Posted on 10-23-08 10:36 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Correct me if I am wrong, but most of you forgot to mention archaic yet pristine bowlers, below is my list of best bowlers of all times, although not quite necessarily in that order. I personally believe Glenn McGrath was the best bowler of all times. Agreed, his bowling did not have a style, or agressiveness, he did not let a primal scream after every batting casualty but always kept his cool while bowling. His pace was calculated, and the line/length was empirical. His lethal deliveries were out of his subtleness.

1. Glenn McGrath

2. Michael Holding

3. Andy Roberts

4. Wasim Akram

5. Shane Warne

6. Dennis Lilee

7. Muttiah Muralitharan

8. Malcom Marshall

9. Wakar Younis

10. Curtley Ambrose

11. Courtney Walsh

12. Colin Croft

13. Allan Donald

14. Richard Hadlee

15. Imran Khan

16. Kapil Dev

17. Shaun Pollock

18. Anil Kumble

19. Abdul Quadir

20. Joel Garner






Last edited: 23-Oct-08 10:40 AM


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