Returning to Nepal with a US degree, good or a bad idea?

Channa,

At the risk of oversimplification, let me share these thoughts:

Facebook remains a privately held company. That means, it does NOT have to disclose its finances to the public. That further means, except for the IRS, no one really knows how much in taxes Facebook pays to the US government. Yes, savvy business journalists/analysts can piece together various strands of available information, and try to come up with a number that aims to tell us how much money Facebook makes and pays out. But in the absence of hard information, such guesses are just that: educated guesses. 

IF Facebook, as a company, goes through an IPO tomorrow, then investors around the world can buy its shares, and information about Facebook's balance sheets, cash flows, earnings statements will be regularly available to us to study/analyze/interpret via www.sec.gov  

Just because MZ is in the news a lot, and because there's a movie made about him, and so on . . . that should NOT lull us to think that therefore we know all about Facebook, and that Facebook is a 'transparent' company.

By law, publicly held companies (i.e. those listed on stock exchanges, and have public shareholders) have to disclose their (material) information on a regular basis. Others need not, therefore do not.

Likewise, IR Tamang, who I know casually, runs a privately held company in Nepal. So does Min Bdr Gurung of Bhatbhateni. So does Birendra Basnet of Buddha Air, and the list goes on and on . .  . of those who run privately held small or big companies in Nepal.

[From what I know about these people, all of them have -- thanks to mouth-watering economic growth rates in India and China -- increasing South Asia-wide ambitions: that means, they want to be in a position to compete with the best in South Asia. That further means that they are keenly aware that in order to realize their ambitions, they have to get their systems, internal governance, their tax stuff all very kosher and pukka and tagada so that when foreign investors/partners show up to do business, they can deal with them confidently, without having to make excuses. To that end, these people are already a part of their various global trade associations and they attend various global trade shows. Cheating on taxes and cutting corners here and there may have been yesterday's routes to success in Nepal, but in today interconnected business world, it's much, much harder to succeed that way for long: and these people know it very well. And if they are indeed cheating and cutting corners, they will be found out, and their investors will lose both money and reputation.] 

Meantime, such private owners and their small circle of partners/investors need NOT disclose their companies' financial stuff to the public. A privately held company is NOT a political democracy: To succeed for a long haul, such a company needs to keep its private investors happy. And the proven way to do that is by keeping customers, communities and tax people happy so that the company continues to generate consistently good returns on the investments.

Re: Tamang: That he was an "unsuccessful lecturer" 15 years ago is totally IRRELEVANT now. Who in Nepal or anywhere defines who is a successful lecturer or who is an unsuccessful one? Though I am all for "successful lecturers", I also think that it's wise for "unsuccessful ones" to find something else to do in life. If anything, Tamang should be applauded for NOT wasting his life on what he was NOT (according to you) good at, and then going on to do something else in which he has found success for himself and his investors. From what I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, you need NOT be a success at lecturing to also eventually succeed as an entrepreneur. If anything, these two skills are probably inversely correlated! Only in bad Nepali poetry are repeat failures celebrated with a tinge of romanticism: in the real world, a smart person learns from his or her failures, changes course, and then finds something else in which s/he is likely be a success. 

oohi
ashu

 
.  

ashu,

i do not want to push this discussion behind "tamang" vs "zuckerberg" nor want to talk much about individuals. Today's success are founded on yesterdays' system. Tomorrow's success depends on today's system. General observation is that today's system is getting worse than yesterday's system. Otherwise, Nepal would not be an island of poverty and lawlessness in between those two giant improving economy. If the system is good (e.g. IRS monitoring FB), then we tend to overlook the transparacy. If the system is questionable, we tend to seek more transparacy. That is human nature.

For a private company, if it is OK to do anything to keep investor, customer, community and tax people happy, then we should stop talking about corruption and foul play. Corruption makes everybody happy except those who want to see a good and fair system. I have seen a I.Com pass man (from Minbhavan campus) earning six figure monthly income in Nepal. He made everybody happy (his Sahuji and hakim saheb, client, family, friend, local social workers, politicians). His earning model was - 4 lakh kar tirnu parne, 1 lakh ma milaidinus, tapai 50 hajar rakhnus, ma 50 hajar rakhchhu, sahuji lai pani faida, 4 lakhko kaam 2 lakhma bhayo. This model is widespread in almost all business sector in Nepal. I would not encourage US returnee to succeed that way in Nepal.

I agree with you that learning from failures and changing the course is a smarter way to success. The "unsuccessful" lecturing carrier was brought in the discussion just to mention that the story of the "success" is incomplete because it has not touched such crucial information, which could be useful indeed. Besides, I know what Tamang has done to make his investor, customer, community and tax people happy, but I don't write those information here in sajha just to make my point or just to provide evidence how successful people have exploited corruption, lawlessness and loopholes in the system. If a reader knows his "unsuccessful lecturing carrier" is missing from the "success" story, s/he should know that the story may mislead and make his own judgement on the story. If someone does not want to understand that and continue blindly follow the story, then may god help him/her.
 

While Nepal has many opportunities to capitalize, it is completely untrue that you won't have to compromise with your principles/values.  Almost no one succeedes in Nepal if you are not the one associated with the league of corrupts.

@Ashu: There are many statements that you make sense, but the fact is you worked for Himal Media as well--an infamous media house. Many people know your investors list who Himal Media serves/served.  You may not be the bad guy, but your decision to join such a corrupt power house, especially with infamous communists like Dixits, have not left you in a position to comment on the fair game of business in Nepal.

Obviously, there are many people in Nepal who are making 15, 20K dollars per month for doing nothing from the NGOs.

Now back to my question, have you not compromised with your values to become "someone" in Nepal?  When I go to bed, I don't feel any guilt of compromising with my principles.  You can make any arguments which many Nepalese will buy as well...but does it really surprise anyone?...a country where killers are hailed as heroes?

The problem with the likes of Chana Tarkari is this:
Look at how he starts his sentences in his last two posts:

" I thought I would pack up for today, ..."
"i do not want to push this discussion behind "tamang" vs "zuckerberg" nor want to talk much about individual.."

So basically, chanatarkari is an individual who thinks about himself a lot and who has the habit of throwing in arguments that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Who cares whether he would pack up ? He can always hide his tail behind his two legs and run away. Similarly, he starts this Tamang Vs Zuckerburg, makes all assumption about Tamang (basically calls him a corrupt man, inefficient teacher and what not) and when pushed, he wants to say he doesn't want to push the discussion. This is the extreme of shamelessness. I totally agree that there is no point in talking to individuals like him because they have no position in this debate that they can defend.

==

And what is this with nagarikreport? 

When did Dixits become communists? Not that this is an honor, but it shows the extent to his knowledge.

Basically, the lesson I get here is that there are bunch of losers who are quick to brand any successful person as a corrupt. These people don't try to do anything. They just hate successful people in Nepal. They don't recognize the changing nature of Nepal. yastale kina feri bekar ko discussion ma bhag lina pareko.

==
Ashu , good inputs there. Not that it made any difference in the mind of the person who refuses to learn or admit his mistake anyway.

Hi Ashu,
How are you doing? It's been a long while since you last visited this site.
As for the original theme of this thread (since it has now gone in a different direction), you yourself being a returne can may be give your thoughts. Of course you returned to Nepal few years back when the financial system in the US was still vibrant and the political and economical situations in Nepal were worse (with an assumption that they are slightly better now).
One of the main reasons why we question our motive to hang on in the US these days is the US economy. It is harder to get a job and immigration laws are getting stricter. So with not much prospect and lack of opportunity, we tend to wonder if it is even worth staying far away from our parents and struggle. For you this probably wasn’t the case since I mentioned earlier that you left the US quiet a few years back and you could have done very well here.

So why did you leave? What were your expectations when you decided to go back to Nepal? Did people criticize you as a failure in Nepal because you went back? Did they question you as “why the hell did you go to the US, if you were to come back so quickly?” And what was the reality? How were the job market, working culture and attitude in Nepal? And how do you think one should prepare if he is wondering about returning to Nepal?

 Life is like Facebook. People will like your problems & comment on it but no one gonna solve them. Coz everyone's busy updating their own.

My first and last comment to this thread.

 Its not about likes or dislikes. It's more about insight.

newStudent, you stink. put your insight rather than likes or dislikes of others.

newStudent is God.  He knows that the people are losers if they are commenting against his views.  By the way, how do you exaclty define losers?

For me, success is a relative term. I don't consider Ashu even an inch successful.  For others, may be he is.  It all depends on the relative perception.  What has he achieved in his life?  Do you know how many media houses are there in Nepal?  What's so unique about Himal Media?  I don't find anything.

FYI, there are many successful Nepalese you will come across if you are an Entrepreneur. They are visionary, hold multiple patents, started and operating good businesses (I don't mean cheap gas stations).  They just don't advertise what they have done in life.  They are known where they are supposed to be known.

Babal Khate

Thank you for pointing me to this thread. For me returning to Nepal is a deeply personal decision that should not be evangelized otherwise it can turn into one of those meaningless 'my-god-is-better-than-your-god' debates. To me it is less important whether a Nepali returns to Nepal or not. What is more important is what they do for Nepal regardless of where in the world they chose to live. Each individual's needs and circumstances are different and I am wary of  lumping people into groups of this type and that type based on family or income in Nepal or success or failure in America.

I agree with your assertion that Nepal needs all kinds of people -- just as the world needs all kinds of minds -- creative, analytical, academic, scientific, entrepreneurial etc. It also needs people who can think beyond the blame game. Speaking for myself, I've stopped blaming the King, Congress, UML, Maoists, history, geography, culture etc  for Nepal's problems because I've realized blaming politicians for everything is just a way of venting my own frustrations about doing diddly squat for the country myself. I've also realized that once you are on the ground in Nepal and start doing things and see the rewards of your work you can be quite content. It boils down to how you manage your expectations about Nepal.  I would rather focus on trying to change several small things over a longer period of time rather than trying to change everything all at the same time. The latter can be a recipe for disaster -- both for the country and the individual because unrealistic expectations of what can be changed  will only set you up for misery and failure. 

To answer the original question, " Returning to Nepal with a US degree, good or a bad idea?" -  I say, it depends on the degree and what exactly you want to achieve when you go to Nepal. My reasons are mine and mine alone. To each his own. Good luck to those staying in the US and best wishes to those returning.

Chanaa,

You are entitled to your opinion.
That's fine.

As for systems, my opinion is this: Good systems are NOT made or built overnight. It takes many, many years of back and forth of domestic and international trade, and the hard work of many, many people to set up and sustain good economic/business systems. What you and others take for granted in the US today was NOT built overnight there. 

If you read the business history of the US, you will see that the Carnegies, the Vanderbilts, the Morgans (or the Cabots and the Lowells in Boston) -- all of them made piles of money in the late 18th, the 19th and the early 20th centuries in many ways that are simply NOT considered legal or ethical today in the US. [The city of Chicago, then and now, remains a hotbed of corruption, for instance, though its more infamous days are over, it seems.]

Similarly, in India today, it's much harder for Anil and Mukesh Ambani to make money the way their father made it in the 70s and the 80s -- that is, by basically buying off the government. Today's Indian business system, though far from perfect, is much more competitive and transparent, and as the recent Radia telecom case there has shown, it's harder to engage in long-term corruption to be a success in Delhi or Mumbai without the press finding out about it, and without the whole thing blowing up in one's face.

In this context, the system in Nepal should be seen as taking small, baby steps in the right direction. Yes, corruption exists here. Yes, not every success here is kosher. Yes, the system needs to be made strong in so many ways. 

BUT in 2011, we should start taking pride in the fact that there now are a number of people in Nepal who seem to have succeeded very well DESPITE the system and NOT because of it. And they and we should be very proud of this fact. And there's no harm in celebrating this fact about fellow Nepalis' success. 

As such, NOT every success in Nepal today needs to be a suspect, like it was, say, 20 or 30 years ago. This is my observation. [Min Bdr Gurung of Bhatbhateni, for instance, credits his success to 1990 ko democracy that eventually helped open up bank credit facilities to the then small-business owners like him. Else, there was no way a mere "cold storage" owner like him to dream big in the 1990s to start his own big store.]
 
And increasingly, I find that most successful people in Nepal do not want to limit themselves only to Nepal: they acquire the necessary know-how, skills and contacts to go regional and even global: some of them - Buddha Air, for instance -- are competing with airlines in India on certain routes; they are winning international contracts to build apartments in Qatar and Saudi Arabia. They are setting up factories in India and Vietnam, they are inviting bideshi investment houses to set up offices in Nepal, and on and on. All these, though far from perfect, can only help us all to make our business system stronger. Baby steps, I say.

So, I do NOT share your reflexive pessimism. Though I am quite aware that businessmen here are NOT exactly saints, I still give most of them a lot of credit for hanging tough, making the best of a really bad situation, striving to create jobs, and, with success, looking for ways to expand their businesses outside of Nepal.

oohi
ashu
 

If you are Master's or phd graduates and thinking of going back to Nepal for good, please contact me. I have business plan for Internet startup. I am looking for friend who is passionate in doing business in Nepal. Or if you want to stay in US and have passion for entrepreneurship, i do have a plan for the website like grupon which can be started small- but its in completely different industry and i believe the industry that i am working on is the industry where money is, for next startup. I am not going to talk about the project details in this forum. If i find you are comfortable to work with, i will send you the non-disclosure policy paper that you need to sign before looking at the project plan.

For my back ground, I am Budhanilkantha School graduate, did my undergraduate in IT engineering and masters in business administration (MBA) in global business leadership.

Nagarikreport,

Re: The Dixits: I worked as the CEO of Himalmedia from 2007 to the end of 2009. My job was to negotiate with trade unions, re-structure the company, do a turn-around and basically leave the company in a better shape. In other words, my job was to do a successful 'corporate surgery', if you will. 

In that capacity, I worked very closely with Kunda and Kanak (and other Board Directors).

I did NOT find K & K to be communists. Nor did I find them to be corrupt in any way. And I say this, quite confidently, on the basis of my direct day-to-day experience with them.

My honest observation is that K & K are two first-rate, highly creative, sophisticated, globally connected Nepali professionals with drive and initiative who care very, very deeply about Nepal -- politically, socially and culturally. 

My own sense is that we need more such people all across Nepal -- and not only in Kathmandu.

[It's one thing to disagree with K & K's published ideas and thoughts, but to attack them personally for being this or that is simply an example of intellectual cowardice. I know that there are people who can't stand Kanak, for instance; but I am NOT one of those: I greatly value his culturally creative brain, which is -- at least, from what I have experienced --- rare in our maatri.bhoomi]. 

Then again, one of my hard-learned rules for success in Nepal or anywhere is this: If you are NOT totally pissing off a few people -- or pissing off a small number of the same old people -- every once in a while, then, you are NOT doing anything really worth doing in Nepal :-)  

Knowing K & K, I think that they simply shrug off all these unfair and silly criticisms and get on with doing what they do best: that is, produce good, solid journalism by training the next generation of Nepali journalists.

As for me, I greatly enjoyed working with and for them, and I now count them among my friends, even when I do not agree with all of their published ideas.

A request: Since this thread is NOT about K & K, let's take further discussions about them off-line. I'll be happy to answer questions about them (you already know what my based-on-experience answers are going to be!) via Sajha email. Thank you. 

oohi
ashu

Seriously, how much can anyone earn in Nepal by working?  What's the highest pay? Which industry, company?  Let's be honest; can we really own even a morotbike, car, house or any luxury items in Nepal by fair standards?  It's not only a question about Nepal; how much do people earn even in US?  If Nepalese do not steal everyday, they barely will be able to pay their expeses for survial in US. If that's not the case, how are they affording to send millions to Nepal?  Those students who do not steal and send money to their families in Nepal, their parents are questioned by their relatives/neighbors whose kids are stealing and sending money to Nepal.

So, the question comes down to whether you want to lead an honest life or a criminal life.  If you are stealing in US and collecting in Nepal, you will either become a corrupt politician in Nepal or engage into unethical business practices.  It doesn't matter which country you choose to live then since you will basically be doing the same thing.

Watch Hijo Aajko Kura, it's a great show.

Great insights, Ashu. 

 Fyi, Pire.

I got hired by a reputed bank for a Managerial Position on Friday. Thank you for your best wishes. 

Agni ji congratulations . Now did u land with ur connections or pure qualification?

I won't say that my "connections" didn't favor me in securing the job but I reckon my Master's Degree from an American institution certainly played its part.

In my own personal case, like I aforementioned, I never had any great intentions of living in the States for a stretched timeframe. Hence, I did have the luxury of "affording" to attend an American institution, not worrying about the return. Really, a mere salary of 25k plus incentives doesn't do a justice to all the hardwork and money I've spent for my Bachelor's and Master's degrees from the States but I look at my own case as more of a personal gain than a return to investment ( short-term ).

I learned a number of lifelong lessons while in the States and I'm damn sure I won't repent it.

Speaking of connections, I plan to spend next 3-4 years with the bank and then, I'm pushing myself for a job at an American INGO with little help of a connection.

Agni,

 I'm really glad that things are working out for you. In many ways, it seems you are approaching work in Kathmandu with the right attitude and expectations. Desh anusar bhesh rakhna paryo, hoina?  

It would be very interesting to hear about the work culture, professionality, etc of your experiences. I'm not sure if you ever got a chance to work for an American company to be able to make a comparison with the work culture here as opposed to there. But I hope you will keep us updated.

What is admirable about you is that you came to terms of the posies and negies of the decision of whether to stay in America or go to Nepal. You realize that your decision is a personal one and may not necessarily apply to everyone. I admire you for taking the stand that you have. You seem to have resolved the conflicts and are moving forward practically. Bravo. 

As someone with a Masters degree from the States working for a bank in a managerial position (do you have any work experience to be a manager, by the way?) congratulations in being a potential future "job maker" in Nepal. 
 

 @ Agni,

Deos Bachelor's in Finance help to get a job in Bank?