@microbiology: how mongols don't have equal opportunity?

I always had problems with some JYAPS. Having said that, my best friend is a newar too. So most of the time and most of the places, its not abt race.

Mancini if you go to Mustang Manang chief district officer is Bahun, which is surprising .you serious you want to tell me about that .. You can just look at the data

LOL guys ! Actually humans are naturally conservative and any pretension not to be conservative results in conflict in life. We are result of influences from family (home), society, education and various propaganda etc. Very existence of personality (as I/Me) demands separateness from the others which exactly is the judgement/discrimination/identification to something (family, race, or something else). So to say "I dont judge, I dont discriminate based on this or that" is outright wrong. Deep down we all discriminate/judge/compare/hate/love/identify/conform constantly and this constant activity in mind gives us a sense of continuity of existence for which we are very proud/ashamed (proud and shamed are same thing). Fighting on the object of judgement positively or negatively is just the best way to continue it. Good luck! Lol

@Micro: I am not surprised at all. Why can't CDO of Manag be a bahun? Almost 30% of population of Nepal is bahun/chettri and they are the one's who go to college the most and fight to get jobs in Government positions. You can't go to London and complain that you are not the CDO of Mustang.

@mancini I didn't say a Bahun can't be a cdo ..m just surprised to find that out .let's say you go to native Indian reservation in Arizona, u don't see a white person in charge.. M not complaining either it's just surprising to see such health and socioeconomic disparities in Nepal ..you can read more online here from Washinton University and let me know what do you think! http://openscholarship.wustl.e...

I don't think you can compare Manang with Indian Reservation; you can compare it with a state whose head can be a person of any race or color depending on capability. I glanced at that thesis and I don't think there is anything special there. The guy talks about how indegenious people around the world suffer; and it feels emotional to read about it. But the real questions that should be asked are: Is the state giving preferential treatment to certain race or color? What actions are taken by state to keep down persons of cetain race and color?

"I am a Newar and I love my Bahun friend"? Even divorced people are supporting gay marriage. Go right ahead. :D

@micro, bahun chetri (30%) have 60% of govt jobs while newars(5%) have 15% of govt jobs. they are both overrepresentated in nepali beuraucracy along with terai brahmins(3% population and 10% jobs). -nepali as ethnic language /mother tongue is a plus for bahun chetri -bulk of population in ktm, high overall HDI and reservtion are a plus point for newars -a long intellectual tradition of learning,relative high HDI and bulk of population in terai cities is a plus for terai brahmins -at the same time, lahure culture and less interest in govt interest is a dragging minus for janajatis

@shiva_linga, Good statistics. I have read stats that among the top tier (1st and 2nd Gazetted Nijamati posts), the share of Newars at one time was as high as 30%, although it is around 15-18% today. Even till now, share of Newars is x3, x4, x5 times their share of population (which is a small 5% compared to Bahun-Chetri who are 32% or Mongol Janajati who are 27%) in many government, private and NGO/INGO. I think you know this but even though the Newar leaders have forced the government to provide Janajati quota to Newars (which is a subject of debate), all the INGOs of Nepal have a stated policy of providing preference to all the ethnicities except the BCN (Bahun-Chetri-Newar) groups. In fact, Newars are even given less preference than Chetris - and this is a valid point because compared between the two (Newar and Chetri), Newars' development index (including per capita, literacy, health, political reach and representation) far exceeds that of Chetris and is in fact of whole Nepal. And no need to give you examples of legions of entrepreneurs like Jyoti group, Panchakanya group, Dwarika group, Vaidhya group, Rajkarnikar House, KGH group who are the big business houses of Nepal owned by Newars. Similarly most of the 2nd tier businesses of Kathmandu including big banks are run by Newars. But just like we should not generalize all Bahuns or Chetris as 'oppressors' and how so many portray them as all things bad of Nepal - which is not true at all, we should also not generalize all Newars as one single group. Because 1st) Newars are not a single caste, it is a community comprising of many castes who do not inter-marry, all united by a language, 2nd) Not all Newars are rich or socially upfront. You will see the actual reality if you go to the outlying Jyapu villages around the Valley, or go to areas of Patan and around Bishnumati where still the traditionally 'Dalit' castes still live in utter poverty. The real reason and a point of dissertation to be studied for anyone could be how come it is the Shresthas (and by this I mean the 'Shrestha' Newari caste consisting of surnames like Shrestha, Amatya, Malla, Onta, Pradhan, Mathema, Joshi, Rajbhandari, Karmacharya, Vaidhya, Kakshapati and the like) are soo soo overrepresented? I mean, they are (according to a 1990 report) around 24% of total Newars (a minority compared to Jyapus for example who are 40%), or 1.2% of Nepal's total population. But that 1.2% literally is the most over-represented group of Nepal, period. Even in the case of Miss Nepal, 7/21 (33%) have been Shrestha Newars, the other 4 Newars have been Usha Khadgi, Payal Shakya, Jharna Bajracharya, Evana Manandhar (who are of Kasai, Bare, Bare, Sayami caste respectively). The only non-Bahun/Chetri PMs of Nepal both have been Shrestha Newars (Marich Man Shrestha and Gehendra B. Rajbhandari), all the Chief Justices of Supreme Court from Newar community (amounting to 22%) have been Shresthas. In other words, for a population whose share is 1.2%, they have controlled 22% (i.e. 18 times their population) of overall Nepal's share of Chief Justices. Similarly, the trend is similar in all political representation. Even among the martyrs and political leaders, all or almost all Newars have always been Shresthas (3 of the 4 great martyrs, 4 of the 4 communist party chairman). The same trend goes in the list of Nepal Police and Armed Police Force generals who have been Newars. Last edited: 09-Apr-16 12:46 AM Last edited: 09-Apr-16 01:11 AM

One valid argument I have is that all Newar castes have specific occupational roles to perform in soceity (like Jyapu = farming, Bare = goldsmiths, Kasai = butchers, Sayami = oilworkers, Rajopadhyay = Hindu Brahmin priest, Bajracharya = Buddhist priest, Chitrakar = painter, Prajapati = potter makers, Deula = cleaners, Kapali = tailors, Nakami = ironsmith, Tuladhar, Tamrakar, Kansakar = merchants, etc.) Likewise, Shrestha's traditional role in society had always been in governing and administration since the Malla times. They are the Chhetris of Newars, there is also a Newari word 'Chathariya' / Kshatriya (?) to denote to few upper-caste clans among the Shresthas (like Malla = kings, Pradhan = chief ministers, Rajbhandari = royal treasurers, Raya = advisers, Kayasta = writers, etc.) who are the Kshatriya caste descendants of Malla and Lichchavi dynasties. And since they were the controllers of their society (just like how Bahun-Chhetri are of the Khas society, or how Terai Brahmin-Rajput are of Madhesh), they too gained substantially and over-time had over-representation in all fields. Last edited: 09-Apr-16 12:59 AM Last edited: 09-Apr-16 01:13 AM

@rajesh, no the notion of bahun chetri as 'oppressors' or 'rulers' is actually a new notion. u cant call the 15 or 25 families that ruled nepal to represent 1 crore bahun chhetri. till 2007 saal, there were rana families ruling the centre and the chaudharis,thakur,mukhiyas, jimmwal, subba,rai of the local caste ruling in local level as feudal lords.So there were tharu chaudharis ,magar mukhiyas/jamindars,rai subba/dewan, jha jamindars, bahun chetri mukhiyas jumwal, kirati subba/dewan etc in respective places. after the maithali speaking mallas and lichhivis, the shah rule saw the ascendance of pahade thakuri ,khas,bahun and magar in central power.so till the rise of jung bahadur we can see generals and ministers of magar ,gurung and khas families alike. but after junge, the ranas(kunwars) monopolised the state power and even the other reknowned bhardar families like thapa,basnyat,pande,other kunwers, rana magar were confied to junior officers and reginal governor level. so it was actually a matter of a family rule rather than some ethnic kind of oppression as presented now. also the newar high caste was always very close to the shah family and a lot of royal counselers, ambassadors,creditors,chautaria and kaji were newars too.

No I agree, this portrayal of Bahuns as the oppressors and this severe anti-Bahun feeling really proliferated since the democracy in 1991, and it just exploded after 2008. And to a good extent, there is no doubt that Bahuns have become the largest beneficiaries after the fall of the Shahs (symbolizing the downfall of Chhetris I suppose), but again to portray entire Bahun population as oppressors just because there happens to be majority Bahun politcal leaders in Singha durbar currently is looking at one thing and concluding a totally different thing. As you said, the vast majority of Khas Chhetris were and have never been at the center of power. Even today, majority of them reside in the least developed part of Nepal - Karnali and far west. Just because the Shah and Ranas and the handful of other Chhetri clans happened to be in power does not mean the entire 40 lakh + Chhetri population are in any way the rulers or part of the oppressing juggernaut.