When i was a kid (or when i was in Nepal), i used to believe in God. I did however have reservations on religion but i still believed in God. Its been a year in US now and having met people from other cultures, the existence of a supreme being doesnt make sense anymore. 

I think that believeing in GOd instills in a person faith, confidence and positivity to get through good times and be appreciative of the bad ones. I want my children to have these qualities so i dont want to tell them that GOd doesnt exist. Moreover, i cant imagine what my parents/relatives will make of me when i talk to them about this. It isnt going to be pretty. 

It does give me great discomfort to think about all this. I must admit i feel less confident and more pessimistic these days. I want to believe in God but my logic doesnt give in anymore. In fact, i get irritated when i hear things like "God COMMANDED you to.." "GOd will PUNISH you if..", "We are SERVANTS in from of Him" "(on Christianity): "Jesus died on the cross for you"(THere are many who have made a similar magnitude of sacrifice). 

I think that God and religion are ancient theories that havent been discarded yet. And it hasnt due to the fear in people of what might happen if they didnt. One of my teachers once said "if there is no god and you believe in god, there is no harm but if there is god and you dont believe in god, there is harm". i feel this and cultural and social stigmas lead people to be religious and not question their beliefs. 

I wanna know what you guys make of this.

I thought I would give this thread a rest, but then Homiji brings DEEPAK CHOPRA, a proven CHARLATAN as his back up. Really a wrong choice Bro. LMAO! He says he uses quantum theory as a metaphor. My supervisor in college used to say "The stupid shall be punished." Now I am beginning to understand his words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcB7FIrXXI

This may interest some of you

homey ji,
that was a perfect analogy for these educated morons and bunch of I-know-all pretend clowns.
I totally agree with whatever you've written down there about that oklahoma story.
Some of these numbnuts can't be taught except books. They just don't really want to think outside the box. Their mind is nicely fed with more or less educated lies and hence been brainwashed successfully. They just don't want to contemplate. , contemplate surrounding, their very own existence.
You will get nothing from these senseless bunch of idiots  but contempt and harsh comments to ridicule you and your way of thinking. You can have dialogue with levelheaded ones but not with bunch of a*s*s*es here. I read through and most of them were spending their effort to demoralize you.
Let them feel they're jack of all trades. flaky b-a-s-tards..

geology tiger,
far*kin jerkwad fundamentalists are not evolved yet to realize that the spirit of god lies in every being. It is something to be realized through deep contemplation/meditation of one's own soul. There is no external salvation crap. Sure, isa (jesus) could have been a realized soul, but the fanatics gave a different twist to his teachings, hardening it with their egos and using it as a tool to go to war in the name of a copyrighted god. And then in balance arose another fanatic religion of Islam and so on. Deepak chopra is being hardhit because he denies christianity and all other religions. I don't even know this guy and don't have any personal sympathy but just watching his debateful videos online I can easily draw conclusion. Look at others, they're string-attached to their christianity root and some other belief systems.
What this video was about two person 1. scientist 2 spiritual leader

Spiritual leaders usually use metaphors more frequent than scientists.
Scientists go after evidence, fact and stat before any claims.

How can you even compare the thought processes of these two group of minds. It's simply unjust. It's like oil and water.
And that so called physicist asking question to chopra as if science is his fathers ancestral property looked so arrogant bigot. Everyone has a right to think their own way. Deepak chopra said on the video "a thought is an indivisible unit of consciousness" just like proton/neutron/electron to atomic nucleas(energy). Just look at at the face of that so-called physicist, he looks so confused and unenlightened when he asked the question. It was metaphor, we used that every here and there to prove relativity. What is wrong with that?

And, what's about that ' if you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory '?? Lol TV broadcasts conspiring all the time to create mass idiots. Are you one of them? Use logic... we are getting a slow and steady grip on quantum mechanics, need proof? search for quantum computer and there is already one operating. Yeah, we understand quantum theory and we already have created our first quantum computer. It's just not out for public.
What does quantum theory really mean to me? yeah, it differs by person. My view of quantum theory could be different than yours. But for me, it's all about the strange behaviours of matter and energy at very sub atomic level. Matter showing some different property and effect other than known physics when observed closely at atomic level, that's all about the quantum theory. Everything, every talk and whatever it is, if revolves around this simple fact, can be really metaphorical at times.  Quantum theory deals with the fact that energy travels in 'quanta', it can be in many places at the same time. Many theoritical physicists who happened to be spiritually mixing science with consciousness presume that our thought can be at many places at one time and that's how it's to take when thinking about quantum mechanics. In similar fashion, the bottlenecks in our today's computer's core working mechanism which is 0 and 1 has it's own limitations. There will be no binary in quantum mechanics and hence we'll start seeing unimaginably powerful and efficient computers in the future. Because quantum mechanics is just too good for human kind. We're understanding it more and more we're studying it.

I've a request, stop following that moron so called richard dawkins. He's plain stupid may be awarded with some degree on his field but he's pure moron. Follow michio kaku instead. He's the greatest physicist ever known to public after albert einstein. He has even proposed his own field string theory. This guy is so levelheaded and accurate, I simply won't hesitate to say that this guy has seen the future in the truest form.

anyway, talk of the talk, try to use your little but self-conscious powerful brain instead of jumping into rushed conclusion.

BitterTruth,

You make some interesting points. I'm not sure if I understood everything you're saying.

So in your opinion, why do you feel that people like Geology Tiger or Behoove_Me don't get it?
Is it because they are very stubborn? Or are they just plain stupid?

"There was no way that I could have told her in detail about my story that happened in Chabel, Boudha, Naxal, Ratna Park, etc, if she didn't have the faintest clue where Nepal, India or even Asia was."

Your anecdote is as disillusioned as your fanatic beliefs. Even if someone knows of Asia or India or Nepal, your reasoning is illogical. In order to dodge the main question you ramble on about some person who hasn't heard of Nepal. That does not mean they cannot understand english. We read news all the time about places we have never heard of.

In your story, the girl did not have any problems. It was you who was limited by your own limitations to tell her stories about Chabel, Boudha, Naxal or Ratna Park. You *assumed* that she would not understand, and you did not have the ability to explain to her. You have a limited mentality. You need to open your eyes.

Ok back to your story. What did you want to tell her about Chabel, Boudha that she would not understand without knowing about Asia, or India or Nepal? There is GAPING holes in your anecdote just like your belief.

If you are smart enough you can always educate someone or explain your thoughts, so stop trying to glamorize your experience if you don't have the ability to express it.

homey ji, I would not address outright 'stubborn' to anyone out here. may be they are successful and doing great things in their personal life. But, some people have split personality when they spend their time in 'second life.' They're just not what they are when they are online. Whatever I've written here is towards their expressive materials. They may be religious in real life, but their core thought could have been expressed here as atheistic view. I don't know them, they don't know me, I don't know you, you don't know me, I can't just assume they're stubborn or such.. but the expressed views in here is good enough for me to write they are 'tards for sure. 

@rethink, you don't need to understand it differently. The analogy is simple. Just because you haven't seen things or haven't experience stuffs , doesn't mean they don't exist. The oklahoma girl never heard of nepal. if he tells her there is a country named nepal, it's upto her to take it if it exists or not. But, he knows , we all know there is country named nepal. B U T, for her, it did not exist up untill he approached her and told her. It's as simple as that. That was fact-based analogy. It's indeed meaningless to discuss these things here among the bunch of ignorant confused ones. When you are being told something, you need to make an effort to get it in your heads. Instead of harshly criticizing, disrespecting other thoughts , you need to give a try to think little bit differently. 'You can only pour water in the bowl which is upward faced, you won't be able to pour water and retain it when it's downward faced. It's all waste.'
Most of your 'dhakkan' is faced downward. Try to expand your horizon of understanding, and lift the bowl to face upward. My thought is like a water, it can take any shape, in glass it's glass, in balloon it's balloon, and so on. 
These are very spiritual and philisophical stuffs I just mentioned. If you don't understand, you can with your true intention can through questions, there is no reason for you to become harsh and end up making stupid comments.


how can you write about a thing, if you've never heard of it or never experienced it? so, stfu and explore your mind.  

don't make conclusions without having any backing for it and come out here and say XYZ user is not relevent enough for me to provide any proof for it  yada yada yada.....make a hypothesis and try to prove it. work your way forward not backwards. so far what i have seen from theists is that they have drawn a conclusive end without any substantial proof and are not willing to move from it. If the girl in the story does not believe there is a country called Nepal is it not upto the story teller to show her that such a country really does exist? or do you go on creating another story with a hypothetical scenario telling her that the way she does not believe in existance of a country is wrong?  if god really does exist why should i have this doubt about it's existance anyway?

"But, he knows , we all know there is country named nepal. B U T, for her, it did not exist up untill he approached her and told her. It's as simple as that."

Some people's thinking is so simplistic it makes me wonder... It's not surprising that with their kind of mentality there are religious fundamentalists who are willing to kill people who don't believe in their gods

Bittertruth you are supporting a foregone conclusion. The anecdote does not support your nor Homeyji's beliefs.

The nepal analogy may work for some bhedas who like to follow others and agree with others, but when you are talking to intelligent, reasonable and logical people, your Nepal analogy falls flat on the face.

You can take a map and point Nepal there. You can take a ticket to Nepal and actually go there. But when it comes to God, you cannot point it out, nor can you show any evidence of God. So like a dumb nut, you will keep comparing god to wrong things because in your simplistic illogical and unreasonable mind it actually makes sense until someone points it out clearly that your example is falling flat on it's face because it does not make any sense.

At least come up with a better analogy if you can't be reasonable and logical.

This is a never ending discussions because belief and science are two separate things.

Believers think that they know god exists but they cannot prove it. If somone believes something without any proof then it can be called blind belief.

On the other hand, people who believe in science need to see proof for accepting something as truth.

I think it boils down to each person's personality. Some believe in god, some require some kind of proof.

In this discussion, Homeyji has strong belief but he is not able to give any proof that science requires. Homeyji why don't you write down your experience that you have been talking about for a long time now so that we can move on from this discussion.

Dear Gurudev Rethink,

You're right. Your profound logic and clarity of thought has fully convinced me. Yes sir, you are correct. There is no God and religion is all nonsense.

I read over the whole thread and you convinced me. Thank you. Wow, it is such a relief to not have to believe in God and religion since you have given me excellent logic and reasoning. I feel like a huge burden of my faith has been lifted from my shoulders. Wow, I can move my head on top of my neck again. Thank you for your patience in explaining. It really helped.

Sir,

Now what do I do? What do I believe? Please, teach me. Most of my life till now, I had found a lot of satisfaction and happiness from my belief in God and religion. But you have taught me that is all bakwas. Thank you for that. Now I feel so enlightened.

I am sure you have heard of good cholestrol and bad cholestrol. Well, the human body has good germs and bad germs.
You have cleansed all those bad germs of theistic thinking with your clean 'antibiotic logic.' And, as antibiotics work, you have cleaned away the bad germs, but are you also going to replace it with good culture? Or are you simply going to leave a vacuum where my faith once lay?

I'm sure you know how anti-biotics work: they kill both the good germs and the bad germs.
http://www.worldwidehealthcenter.net/articles-264.html

So Rethink, since you are so wise and learned, I was wondering if you could help me further. Please tell me your philosophy in life. What is your basis of truth? What is life? I want to replace my bad germs with good germs. Please teach me your philosophy so that I may be satisfied, confident and enlightened like you, guruji.

Dear Gurudev Rethink,

Please enlighten me further. What is your basis of reality, sir?

Homeyji,

The problem with you is you are ever ready to jump into a bandwagon that suits your capabilities or lack thereof.

I am not here to enlighten you or to preach on what to believe or what to think. I heard you talking about your divine experience so I wanted to stop by and express my doubts.

I have a difficult time believing in something without any concrete proof. That just makes me a scientific person who follows logic and reason. It does not make me a Guru or a teacher of any kind.

"I had found a lot of satisfaction and happiness from my belief in God and religion"

Most people believe in God/religion because it gives them a sense of belonging, a sense of being a part of a bigger picture. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People have different ways of coping with life or living life and as long as they don't bother me or impose their lifestyles upon me, I am completely fine with that. If that works for you, then more power to you.

I am only questioning you because you have hinted at an experience you had that may prove the existence of God.

I don't believe in it with blind faith, but if I see proof then I may change my mind so if you are not bull shitting about your experience just go ahead and spill it out otherwise you don't really have much to go on.

Dear Gurudev Rethink,

Dandavat Pranam.

Gurudev, I have many many problems. You seem to have only found one. Keep looking, you will find many more. It is your job as my guru to find fault in me and to correct all problems that you see in me.

You have convinced me not to believe in God or religion. I think you are 100% correct.

You seem like a very wise and learned person. So please, don't stop. I want to learn a lot more from you. You have corrected my blind faith and wrong understanding and faulty logic. I want to thank you for that.

I am encouraging you to continue correcting me. Please ground me in your solid logic of reality. I want to be grounded in the same proof of reality that you are grounded in. So please show me this concrete proof of reality that you are grounded so solidly in, sir.

Please tell me your philosophy in life. What is your basis of truth? What is life? I want to replace my bad germs with good germs. Please teach me your philosophy so that I may be satisfied, confident and enlightened like you, guruji.

Dear Gurudev Rethink,

Please enlighten me further. What is your basis of reality, sir?

@ rethink,
your nick handle suits none other than yourself. you really need to RE-THINK.. hahahah 

there is another thing that rose up in my mind after whatching that video above(chopra vs that knucklehead) that there are few of arrogant scientists who are strict atheist. that's for sure. all they have is their theories of this and that. I'm not saying I'm against the science, I'm a budding astrophysicist myself. and all these theories are turned upside down. the theory that once prevailed which said earth is the center of the universe, it's epic FAIL. the theory of evolution which says we emerged from a unicell , it's epic FAIL(at least for me), .. the law that says there is nothing that can travel faster than light, it's epic FAIL(it was just proven recently in the scientific field). what these atheists are not getting in their head is that all the theories they tend to use as back up is for very short period of time. eventually, new theory gets coined.science doesn't go beyong the big bang and that's only a theory. for the big bang to happen there was something before and that's a fact. there's absolutely nothing at all that can fully explain where that initial matter came from, so they can't disprove it was created by something they can't explain (God). scientists have recently tried to prove you can create something from nothing and failed because of certain technicalities being pointed out. the jury is out on this one


And, non-believers should not try to coerce others into believing or into following their non-god's rules.

PS: I despise all the religions, yeah, including some of yours hinduism and all other man-made propaganda. they just don't have any meaning to me. but I still believe in that single doer, higher self . 

where is this temple/church/masjid/gumba for non believers, god damn scientists are coercing and brain washing people into not beleiving in god....stupid scientist are backing up for these non believers...

i will enforce my non belief in your brain so that you can never believe in god....oh wait isn't it the other way round?

bittertruth,

1. Ok I understand that you can equally use foul langauge while shouting on others for using it.

2. I don't think you have good understanding of quantam physics simply because you make joke of Richard Feynman. I konw that I don't have good understanding of quatam physics but definitely my understanding is not worser than yours. So basically I need no explanation about quantam physcis from you.

3. I never wrote my opinion about Deepak Chopra or Bob Dutko when I put  the link of that video. I just thought it might interest some of you both believers and non-believers. If you want to know my opinion about the existence of god find some of my earlier postings in this thread. I hesitate to restate same thing again and again. 

homeyji,

1. I still have great respect for you and your writing but not for whatever you have posted in this thread. You can't force others to believe on you or your feelings about god simply because you think so. If you want to call me stupid or stubborn because of this, you are welcomed to do so. I have been given many names by different sajhaities. So it doesn't bother me. 

2. Your arguments are weak and they are pulling down your reputation as one good writer. Earlier, I also requested Babal Khate and I am doing same with you. Please stop this. 

@geology_tiger
I don't like to go and edit my post, what has been said is said. But that wasn't for you, I, hereby, correct my statement that it was not for you but @pulsar_beat
I hope you wouldn't take it seriously. 

Geology Tiger,

On the contrary, I am admitting that there is no God or religion.

To tell you the truth, at this point, seeing the quality of the level of conversation in sajha, rather than caring about my reputation here, I feel like deleting my username altogether.

But I still have not given up, because of a few very intelligent people like you, Rethink and Behoove me.

Please tell me your philosophy in life. What is your basis of truth? What is life? I want to replace my bad germs with good germs. Please teach me your philosophy so that I may be satisfied, confident and enlightened like you, guruji.

 

My question is simple. All of you non-believers in God and religion. Can you all come up with one thing in your practical everyday life that you all can agree on? Since you all are grounded in science, I am sure that all of you have the same philosophy in life because scientific proof that you have received would make sure that all of you are completely consistent in how you act and behave and the choices you make, no?
After all, none of you followers of science make any choices in your everyday lives that is not based on the scientific method, do you?

So in that way, I am sure all of you are satisfied with very similar things in life since you all believe in what is rational proof to all of you right?

God is simply an object that consistently satisfies a human being. God comes in many shapes and forms for many different people. People call God by many different names based on how they relate to God.
Those who have not found any object that consistently satisfies them, naturally, do not believe in God.

 There are things we should believe even though we dont see them or prove them. Regarding god, I dont believe the personal god, but I believe there are some supernatural power/creatures that we cannot understand. I will rather say I am one of the confused one whether to believe or not in these things. Science cannot prove the existence of god, but science cannot explain the sources or root of watever exists today. So I dont dont want to believe in god, but there is nothing else that I can full fill that super power position. So I am Confused, and readings thrugh this thread could not enlighten me either, instead I am more confused. 

If I dont believe god because science can not prove it, here is what millineum man says:
I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.

and that shit confused me even more and I will be glad if I confused any of you :)

Summary: It is better not to think about existence of god, beyond the universe and after the death otherwise it will confuse us more and the debate never ends. 
Note: It may be applicable only to me.